Are you really a Tory believer ? Johnson is morally corrupt, the latest in a long line of liars & cheats who a few Tory members have selected to lead them & given the Prime Ministers job to.

Ever single Tory prime minister, except Ted Heath(who was never married), have cheated on their spouses, openly lied to the country & gone to war to win elections. They are only interested in producing more wealth for their supporters/donors & themselves.

The Tory party has always disrepected the working class. Remember the contemptable remark that "Paramedics are just taxi drivers ?" The fallen hero Churchill despised the working class all his life & nothing has changed today.

Johnson is an abysmal Prime Minister & should go to the country PDQ

> i'm all for 'reasoned debate'  and have not found any of the comments here 'insulting ' or 'unnecessary' .

Neither have I and I think very occasionally it can be a welcome change to have another subject entirely to talk about here.

I wonder, on another side-issue, how many people ARE starting to think about stockpiling dog food?   We can make do with, but can our dogs?  And then there's medication like Metacam (she says, with feeling) which is made in Germany.  For how long will that be available, and at what price?

Just to rattle the cage - did anybody watch the glorious ENABLE with my Basset's name-sake on board as usual, win the Yorkshire Oaks this afternoon?    I've never seen Frankie moved to tears quite as he was today but it was probably the last time she'll be seen racing in the UK.

I think Jan, seeing the somewhat biased and inaccurate recent post from Ann R Smith,
I rest my case!!

I'm sure Admin will be watching ...............

Inaccurate really ?? Try doing some non internet research into the Tory party & their leaders. Being a researcher by profession & starting long before the internet existed, I do lots of fact based research into politics now I am retired.

What upset you ? The references to the corrupt & immoral leaders like Churchill, who had a long running affair with Doris Castlerosse ? John Major's affair with Edwina Currie ??

Margaret Thatcher going to war over the Falklands in order to win a general election when the invasion could have been prevented ??

Tory supporters like yourself conveniently fail to grasp the ethos of the Tory party, to quote William Henry Harrison from 1840 speech, “I believe and I say it is true ......that all the measures of the government are directed to the purpose of making the rich richer and the poor poorer.”

As a lifelong, active Conservative I could no doubt debate at length with you. I have no intention of doing so as this is in my opinion, the wrong place. You are clearly left wing, possessing the usual tunnel vision!
Good night!

Lifelong born into Tory family then.

Left wing ? Really ? Nope I research & find out FACTS & unlike your current leader(& those who preceded him) don't tell lies. Lost an Uncle at Arnhem-just one of Churchills bad decisions, lost a friend in the Falklands-one of Baroness Thatcher's bad decisions & another in the Gulf war John Major used to win a General Election....... The list goes on.

The same goes for Tony Blair (who was born into a Tory family BTW) told lies to gain power.

I simply hate liars & cheats- something YOUR current leader has already been proven to be & that is a public fact

> I'm sure Admin will be watching ...............<img class="fsm fsm_eek" src="/images/epx.png" title="eek" alt="" />

HOPEFULLY because I don't think where this thread has gone, is appropriate??

I agree, and its starting to get personal now.  Maybe time it was locked?

Boris being Boris https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvgpzsrhkMU

that was one big handshake, gotta laugh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raBfs6cAhSw

By the by, did anyone hear Radio 4 You and Yours ( 12 .20ish) yesterday? There was an item about local council breeder licencing. I just caught the end of it. I'm not sure if I can get it on IPlayer.

Re Boris debate-I don't think it is good to close down a topic just because people have strong opinions. Brexit will have a massive impact on all of us, whichever side of this divisive issue you are on. I'm sure it is more healthy than being exposed to the daily bigotry of the tabloid press.

Also, where is 'Tommee'. I'm sure he would have made a valuable contribution to this debate, being a Welsh sheep farmer. I miss him.
Been sitting on trains all day travelling down from Scotland with dogs. Massive disruption and overcrowding , but fun !

> Switzerland has (I think) 6 EU countries around it but does not have a 'hard' border with any of them. Why do we need one with Ireland?<br />

Because they have a deal with the EU and are in the single market that is why. Its a different deal to Norway who also have a deal but not in the EU.
Everytime i have mentioned to those wanting to leave about a deal like Norway or Switzerland they say no because they don't want freedom of movement.
When the initial campaign was going on there was never any mention about a no deal from the leave campaign.
I don't see why we can't stay in the single market either because that would instantly solve the problems in NI/Republic they are currently having over the backstop

What do you guys make of Boris suspending parliament ....?

to be fair, for weeks now it appear's possibly several MP's have been trying to play Chess with Boris (how their next move could take him out of power and some even hoping Jeremy would replace him) should they really be that surprised now to find out that, Boris has made quite a smart move and used his queen. Just my honest opinion guys.

Breaking the Law, but then what's new about that. He wants a no deal Brexit because it won't affect millionaires like him

Just more words from a man who is breaking the law & smirking about it.

The Tories suspended the Queens speech because of Brexit, but now they are proroguing parliament because "we" need a Queen's speech. Doh

Looks like his Scottish leader is jumping ship too

your obviously very passionate about what your saying Ann and I respect that, but if Boris with the mountain he has to climb, manage's to secure a 'good deal for Britain' do you think this would change many people's opinion of him. I may be being a bit over optimistic I guess, but I just have a feeling, that he can do it.

Having studied politics for many years, this man is not capable of doing anything that will not directly benefit those who finance him & his party. He like so many right wing politicians, put the creation of wealth for the few so far ahead of the ordinary person's welfare & rights, if it was a race there would miles between them. The ethos of Conservatism doesn't include compassion nor concern for the less financially endowed.

Johnson is a proven liar & multiple time cheat, who thinks the buffoon image is suitable for an unelected Prime Minister of this country.

He is using the magic money from the magic  money tree he has suddenly found to shore up the education system, that they have removed billions from over the past 9 years- too little too late.

Don't forget the Tories have fought against the NHS from it's conception

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. Ann R Smith.
I find it difficult to comprehend why so many people both educated and not are prepared to support him. This concept of getting a good deal is just another blindfold. Theresa May worked hard to secure a deal and she was rebuffed on all suggestions.

I echo your thoughts Louise. I read a comment in the media  to the effect that the people of this country are too obsessed with trivia to fully comprehend , or comprehend in any way , the implications of the current crisis. It clearly goes further than that. Just to read the headlines of the Daily Mail and realise its enduring popularity makes me realise that the Devil Has His Charms -and people will be charmed. Theresa May was a weak PM and I am sure she was set up to fail, by the very cabal who have put Boris in her place. I am no Conspiracy Theorist, just someone who 'reads the runes'

I'm going against what a few here have said about what Boris has done and at least he HAS done something!  I'm not a fan but in this case, suspending Parliament just a few weeks ahead of when it would have been suspended normally (note) could well have been a smart move.  The weeks before it would have been suspended normally, would have been when the Party Conferences happened, that ending with the short suspension at the end of the current term, followed by the Queen's Speech, going into it all kicking off again, with the usual debate about what's in the next QS.   

After all Parliament has had 3 years to debate/discuss leaving the EU and have got NOWHERE. Why? - because there has been no will to get together and sort all this out.  MPs too interested in their own potential gain.   What would another few weeks have really accomplished?   As it is, work is being done with the EU, to try to reach a Deal that those in Parliament WILL accept.   And that's still more likely to produce what has happened, several times, when May returned with her 'deal'.

This entire mess is down to Cameron, who decided of all his election promises, to allow the public to vote in what was always only an advisory Referendum.    With no knowledge of the facts other than media-led fear tactics.   It's that man who should be facing the wrath of the public, possibly not BJ who may go to Hero, or Zero.   Just my opinion.

Maggie would have sorted it all out PDQ !

Thatcher would never had allowed the referendum, as she dispised referendums, so the situation would never have arisen. It seems some people have either scant memories of her dictatorial style or none at all.

Unfortunately I lived & worked throughout the Thatcher reign whilst she sold the narional assets to the highest bidders(& making her hubby a multi millionaire in the process) & at the same time stopped free milk for school children & universal free school meals

On the other hand ..............

At the Dublin European Council in November 1979, Thatcher argued that the United Kingdom paid far more to the European Economic Community (EEC) than it received in spending. She famously declared at the summit: "We are not asking the Community or anyone else for money. We are simply asking to have our own money back". Her arguments were successful and at the June 1984 Fontainbleau Summit, the EEC agreed on an annual rebate for the United Kingdom, amounting to 66% of the difference between Britain's EU contributions and receipts. This still remains in effect, although Tony Blair later agreed to significantly reduce the size of the rebate.

That, of course, was when it was still the EEC which the UK had joined in 1973 and voted to stay in by referendum in 1975, and not the EU (foisted on us in 1993 without asking the people) which we are trying to get free from.

But she would never have allowed a referendum & her cabinet had no say in anything, they were simply sheep following her orders

When Theresa May said 'no deal is better than a bad deal' nobody blinked lol. Whatever some may think of Boris, hats off to him he's certainly kicked Politicians into gear.

Boris has just lost his majority (of one) with a Tory defecting to the Lib Dems.   What now for him!!?

You mean the media said nothing ? The various opposition parties certainly did

He will blunder on & try to buy support as May did with the DUP. Not quite sure which of the small opposition parties will jump into bed with him.

Really he should go to the country now

When we see MPs reactions today over Brexit, we understand why the 2016 referendum (people's vote) was never honoured.

How can the DUP back him because a no deal does nothing for their border with the Republic