Hi freelancer,
Yes I'm a vet. I don't think the poodle looked uncomfortable when he went into the bow- I don't think a dog that was sore would move that well afterwards - if they do have a sore abdomen they sometimes do that praying thing but then they usually follow it by being a bit humped up with a more stilted pottery gait behind and he was moving on well. Looked like it was a nice shape of a dog but I could only see half of it, the rest was covered in a duvet of bouffy hair. I was watching it after the fact on youtube - maybe the commentators were different to the more4 ones? I just assumed it was the same commentary.
I thought the Wolfhound looked a bit over at the knee (is that an expression in dogs as well as horses?).
I liked the wirehaired fox terrier but it was hard to tell how he would move on a loose lead, looked like he was going to be lifted off his feet by the lead (maybe an optical illusion and there wasn't that much tension on the lead, maybe he really is that "upright"). I'd like to see all of them to be able to get their heads down a bit. It all looks a bit "Black Beauty on a bearing rein".
The commentary I was listening to was mostly about heads, tails, coats and some vague stuff about "the gorgeous lines of the blah blah breed". I'd like to hear more nitty gritty - for example when the judge was feeling the Rottie's hindlimb muscles, the presenter could be saying something like "this breed has more cruciate ligament trouble than average, so the judge will be looking for good symmetrical well developed hindleg muscles - which this dog has - and checking for any knee joint thickening. You'll also notice that this dog hasn't got too straight a hindleg when viewed from the side" or "spaniels can sometimes be prone to ear trouble, so the judge is looking for any thickening or darkening of the skin at the entrance to the ear canals, which could be a sign of past problems". I didn't hear any mention at all of any potential faults in each breed and the explanation of how to recognise that those best of breed examples didn't have those faults.
It's an opportunity wasted to educate the general public on what to look for when they're looking at the sire and dam of a pup they're thinking of buying. We need the buyers of pet pups looking at the parents with a critical eye and Crufts commentary would be a good chance to get people to start thinking in this way.

Smiling at the response that dogs should be groomed so handlers don't have to take a brush or comb into the ring!  Why not?  Yes, they are dogs, but they are SHOW dogs, presentation IS important - it's not a working dog competition!

Must admit I've never understood the grooming inside a ring. I don't know if rules have changed these days, but when I lived in Sweden you were not allowed to bring a brush or comb into the ring. And having shown Persian cats for two decades, where the judges even turn the cats upside down to check the grooming on the stomach is done to perfection, I am used to having to stop grooming at 10 am and then come back 2-3 hours later when judging has finished, not having been able to do any further touching up -not even in between judges. (All cats being entered in a minimum of 3 classes, with usually a different judge for each.) So I think it is possible to manage without grooming in the ring. But then again I don't have a problem with anyone doing it, either. :)

>"this breed has more cruciate ligament trouble than average, so the judge will be looking for good symmetrical well developed hindleg muscles - which this dog has - and checking for any knee joint thickening. You'll also notice that this dog hasn't got too straight a hindleg when viewed from the side" or "spaniels can sometimes be prone to ear trouble, so the judge is looking for any thickening or darkening of the skin at the entrance to the ear canals, which could be a sign of past problems".

The judge isn't doing a veterinary examination for medical problems, he/she's checking to see how closely the dog conforms to the breed standard. Any obvious medical problem (and few judges, if any, are qualified vets) would have been picked up in the breed ring and the breed judge wouldn't have awarded the individual Best of Breed and sent it forward to the group.

irishvet,

Good to have a vet on here, welcome.

Your point about stretching makes sense.

"Black Beauty on a bearing rein" made me laugh. I would have to look again but the Fox Terrier may well be lifted up off the ground at times- the gait is very upright and should be but it is not unusual to see these terriers strung up- though not saying that is the case here.

For the initiated the kind of commentary you suggest would be a plus. I would think that even the KC might go for it, but imagine that the broadcaster would not. C4 needs viewers, that is all it is interested in, and I suspect that is the real driver towards fluffydom/dumbing down. The broadcaster will always go for the popular/human story if they can and so we get handler interviews asking how nervous they are, lots of tear jerking 'friends for life' and plenty of fast-moving, easy to digest action, like flyball.

I agree with jeangenie,I think the majority of the gp would turn over if they started giving a ten point vet exam, the fact is it is a beauty competition not how many miles a dog can run etc, not all like it but I am afraid that's what it is.

Just adding on to JG's reply to irish vet. The judge has to commit to memory the breed standard for each breed and then he/she judges each dog against that written standard. Obviously there is a degree of subjectivity in interpreting the standard- something like "long skull, flat and narrow" will be interpreted differently by individuals. So a good judge will have a depth of experience in the breed they judge. Additionally standards can differ slightly from country to country.

Apologies if you already know all of this.

Correct me if I am wrong but is our part of the show, the BASC gundogs for actual working dogs, the only part that gets NO mention on TV? Is it too sensitive an area for Joe public to see?
There are many great dogs shown here showing that working dogs can have good looks too. Maybe just bias as my boy was second in the strong AV retriever class of 27. 

About the BASC gundogs. We stayed ringside to watch a Labardor class and could not work out how they judged it. Was it really on looks? Only they were all dreadful (and I don't mean that as a comparison to showdogs, I mean as dogs go, of whatever breed) several with awful toplines, (like an inverted GSD! U shape) some paced, many backed away from the judge etc, and we assumed they must be judged on some other criteria. Then in the BIS ring when we saw the winners of the various classes (no Labradors though!) they seemed a lot better.

The winner of the dog class was a full UK champ and the judge shows 'show' labs as well as working them so I'm sure she knew what she was looking for, not sure of the speciality of the bitches judge however. I never seen the Lab judging so cannot fully comment but the criteria is for a dog that matches the breed template that would be capable of doing a day in the field. They have to have worked during the season so most are well muscled and in a hard condition. We had the same judge and the Chessie that stood in front of us was again a full champ.

It's the first time for years it was mentioned that there was any obedience, and they didn't go into any details about there being 4 different competitions. Barely mentioned the JW finals, and actually there wasn't much on the HTM or freestyle, which you'd think would be popular. I know Friends for Life is a nice idea, but it seems a bit unfair to have about an hour about it every single night and ignore so much else!

>I know many will totally disagree with me...just my view.<br />

No disagreements here, from an owner of a wash and wear breed, (never trimmed, in UK or Scandinavia) no nonsense functional hunting breed with an attractive weatherproof double coat, that in the USA often is powdered, backcombed and trimmed to within an inch of it's life (most distasteful to me).

A bath if dirty or moulting badly, comb and brush and that should be it for them.

The presenter you mean is Jessica Holm, who is a very successful exhibitor of a hound breed. :-)

Lisa T did the presenting on the first day.   And she was funny!!

Jessica Holm has GBGVs.   And much as she is knowledgeable for sure, drives me mad with her French 'Bassay P and G BGVs'.   If she says Bassay and Vendeon, to acknowledge the French background (not necessary, these breeds have been in the UK for years without being prounced that way) why does she still call the Fauve Basset (or the 'proper Basset' for that matter) the Basset Fauve de B and not Bassay Fauve de B.   Small point but irritating.

what did you make if the BIS Standard Poodle going twice into a deep bow and refusing to budge? Jessica said he was stretching, would you agree?

I'm not sure exactly what the Poodle was doing in that 'bow'.  Jessica suggested it was stretching and for sure, he seemed to be moving okay afterwards but what was that all about?    And as an aside, did you think he was a tad small for a Standard?

@ Irishvet - totally agree with your individual comments, but it's not the commentators place to make specific criticism of the individual dogs .... much as for sure the cruciate comment (Rotties) is appropriate and any judge who is aware of a problem at the time, within a breed, should be checking and penalising that fault in an exhibit.   And I had to laugh at the Group judge who was trying, without success, to locate a sternum on my main breed, that Basset.   Clearly from the placement of the shoulders, he'd not have found one!  And I'll go further to suggest that that bitch hardly fitted the revised Breed Standard which calls for no excesses.  I won't go down the eye road!!!   Pity the Wolfhound didn't turn up for the BIS judging - he was just not moving - clearly had done enough, he thought.  Shame as there were other candidates in the Group who would have put out - not the least the Afghan, and the Saluki who didn't make the cut, and the delicious Whippet!!!

>If she says Bassay and Vendeon

Because they're from the Vendée (there's an accent on the first 'e'), which is pronounced Vonday not Vondee. :-)

Because they're from the Vendée (there's an accent on the first 'e'), which is pronounced Vonday not Vondee. :-)

Maybe so, but not for years has this been the case - in the UK.  Only according to Jessica bless her.   It's an affectation, pure and simple.

>And as an aside, did you think he was a tad small for a Standard?

Anything above the height of the maximum height of a miniature (15 inches) is a standard and in fact some are very tall, and it always seems that there should be a nice medium size to fit in where the miniature leaves off and the tall standards, a 20 - 22 inch size, so it's nice to see not such a tall standard.

>not the least the Afghan, and the Saluki who didn't make the cut, and the delicious Whippet!!!

Ah, I rather liked those three, specially the whippet, glad I'm not alone!