The worst shows are when you can predict within a few dogs who will take top honours, regardless of how said dogs will and do perform on the day...
A friend months befor a big show told me that that a specific dog was going to win best in show and it did.

Perhaps it's not the way the show are run that needs sorting it's the judges

A champions class gives a judge an easy out by putting up a champion for BOB.

Based on US pedigrees it seems that most dogs of reasonable merit are expected to become champions, but few people unless well healed or able to put their dogs out with a pro, get past that to win BOB or have a chance in group.

I know people in my breed that if they want to go any further than the classes feel that they have to employ a pro handler to have chance of BOB or placing in groups.

It would seem that the top dogs in Europe are also taken on the circuit by pro handlers and tend to win all over at group level.

I'd certainly be happy for the RCC to be upgraded where the CC winner already had say 10CC's, so a top dog stopping others from winning.  Also 3RCC's to equal a CC, as long as the dog already had at least one CC beating all comers.

With more people only owning a few dogs and keeping their companions for life I'd like to see more chances for Veterans.  There should be Veteran classes at all champ shows with a Best Veteran in Group/show competition.

Reduced entry fees for Veterans, puppies (to encourage new puppy owners) and for second and subsequent dogs.

well i knew who wd win at a recent show and I was right. :(

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">I'm getting sick and tired of seeing dogs gaining top honours when they are lame or pace around the ring, or just have poor movement, that's not top quality regardless of how the rest of the dog is, I can't believe those with dogs I've described as above even had the audacity to put their dogs in the ring in that state..

There's nothing new there, I have been around the show rings since 1986 and heard it since then.  What people have to do is vote with their feet on these judges, don't enter, and maybe tell the show management why.  If more people did so, then maybe show committee's would get the message it won't be stood for.  I told the committee of a recent cat show exactly why I wasn't entering under a particular judge, the judge got no entries from my breed at all because her reputation is dreadful.  Needless to say I don't think she'll be asked again.

I don't agree with RCC exchange for a CC.  If your dog is good enough it will get made up.  I have done it when numbers were far stronger than there are now.  All three title holding bitches I have bred have won in good company.

I don't agree with RCC exchange for a CC. If your dog is good enough it will get made up.

Ahhh  if only that were true....

I've made up a bitch in just 12 shows, and with 2 BOBs when numbers were stronger, but just try going up against someone who is judging and going for the breed record and you'll find that no matter how good the other dogs,  the result is fairly predictable.     Being able to make up a Ch with RCCs under those circumstances would ensure that there would still be some sort of competition instead of people just saving their money and time.

I was told that I wasn't doing my dogs justice, I should start judging so that they'd get the honours they deserve, and I've seen the dramatic change of fortune that occurs when someone does just that.   I'm afraid though, that I can't be bothered with all the politics, it isn't beneficial to the breed if the only dogs winning are those who have the right person on the other end of the lead.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">I was told that I wasn't doing my dogs justice, I should start judging so that they'd get the honours they deserve, and I've seen the dramatic change of fortune that occurs when someone does just that.

Well I have judged just once back in 2000 at an open show.  Bitch No. 1 made up in August 2011, Bitch no. 2 made up June 2004, Bitch no. 3 made up in July 2008.  I doubt my one appointment altered those results.

Due to being poor and poor eyesight I have never judged except at a match and Companion shows (only by having my arm twisted).

I have made up three of my own bitches (all multiple CC and RCC's winners), a dog in partnership, and bred another UK champion and numerous CC and RCC winners.

Perhaps I would have won more if I had been more high profile, but winning as a nobody gives more sense of achievement.

Oh YES Brainless - you're right there :-D

Christine, this is in a particular breed.    Not huge numbers of entries, but not tiny either.    I didn't believe what I was told at first, thought it was sour grapes etc.  But after 13 years of watching what goes on, it's hard to ignore.

My own dogs have done extemely well given our limited finances and against stiff competition, but it's galling to see the drastic change in fortunes (with the same dogs) that occurs when someone starts judging, if the dogs are good then they should get the placings, regardless of who the owner is and whether they judge or not ;)

It's the one thing I liked about cat showing.   A new owner with a well bred cat of good quality has a chance of doing well.    It is possible to know a particular 'type' and even recognise certain cats, but at least the owners are elsewhere and the cat could be owned by anyone.

Totally agree being a nobody means the dog wins on his own merit, I've seen people say in my breed my dog should stay at home well last year I did just that as was chasing last cc with my other lad and these dogs still did not get any tickets, I just feel some just can't see their dogs faults.

Up until recently I entered every show but in the last day ur so have made the decision to not enter any of my dogs where I know what is going to happen before I get there.
Several friends are doing the same. For me that is an entry if six and a huge saving as it costs me over £200 per show. If entries are low then maybe this has to be looked at.
No one minds getting beaten but not  by a dog
With obvious glaring faults...

We have a fairly poor entry for Richmond, but when you look how much it cost to enter its no wonder its poor, surely the ground costs there can't be much more than for any other show? Not content with £29 per entry it was £60 for the motorhome, I will spend less driving there.