But, dogs are not obligate carnivores. This new study shows that they have evolved dietary mechanisms for dealing with forms of carbohydrate, leftovers from humans- this is not the same as vegetable matter. No-one is suggesting that dogs help themselves to raw carbs, anymore than humans do. They have evolved to eat cooked carbs, which breaks it down. In the same way, we know dogs cannot handle cellulose etc in raw vegetable matter but can utilize nutritional elements of the vegetable if cooked, or taken from the digestive system of a herbivore, like the rabbit. Dogs can digest small amounts of fruit, as can wolves.

> Kibble is to make it easier & convenient to feed our pets.

What's wrong with that?  We are not martyrs :)

>The kibble is offered for convenience just like a TV dinner lets say you buy from the grocery store.
>Not something you would want to eat all the time but it makes for a fast convenient meal.

Feeding humans is very different to feeding dogs, we have social and psycological demands around eating that dogs do not have.  That said, some humans are happy to eat complete, ready prepared meals all the time and pretty much the same ones too but there is nothing wrong with that if it meets all their nutritional requirements.

> Don't mind a good argument lets say as long as its all good & no one gets
> their feelings hurt

I don't mind anyone describing what they feed and why they find it satisfactory for their dogs but I think when you start suggesting that what others choose to feed is wrong you really need to have some decent, unbiased evidential support as it really is quite insulting to suggest that they too are not doing the best for their animals.

This is only one study, I'd like to see more- so I would only take it as a grain of salt :-)

yes I no wolves eat berries it was found in their tummy's. I also feed my dogs mixed berries.

Kibble is made for our convenience & in the end is still processed cooked stuff they call real food, Its not real fresh food :-)

No matter how one looks at it you are feeding a processed diet- not a real nutritional diet to your pet.

Would you yourself prefer the processed microwaved ready made mashed potatoes or fresh potatoes that you have done yourself?
personally I wouldn't buy the processed microwaved potatoes I prefer the ones I cut myself :-)

>Digestive Enzymes; Amylase is not present within the saliva of carnivores hence the burden of digesting carbohydrates is taken by the pancreas. Long term over loading of the pancreas is associated with insulin resistance and ultimately the failure of the pancreas to produce of insulin as found in type 2 diabetes.

But this study has shown "Dogs had four to 30 copies of the gene for amylase, a protein that starts the breakdown of starch in the intestine. Wolves have only two copies, one on each chromosome. As a result, that gene was 28-fold more active in dogs." Domestic dogs are not the same as wolves.

In the end I also said it comes down to what works best for you and you pets :-)

Dollface,have you actually read the findings? You're sounding a little like the evangelising FFs. :-(

Yes I read it- but still take as a grain of salt :-)

Guess I kinda feel like arguing sorry :-(

In the end I did say it comes down to what works best for you :-)

Think I am just on my high horse so to speak cause of the huge turn around I have seen in my dogs :-)
Really don't think dogs are all that healthy on processed food.

>Really don't think dogs are all that healthy on processed food.

Do you consider fresh mashed potato and freshly-boiled rice to be 'processed food'? Technically it is, because it's not served in the natural state, but I don't think anyone would consider them to be 'unhealthy'.

The great thing is that there's been scientific evidence, based on the DNA of at least 60 breeds of domestic dog, showing what many dog owners have known for years; namely that cutting 'grains' and carbohydrate out from a dog's diet is unnecessary for good health. If an owner wans to then the dog won't suffer; equally a dog won't suffer if its diet does contain grains and carbohydrate. Hurrah for a balanced view at last!

No cause we need to cook our meals to eat it. We couldn't be expected to eat a fresh chicken we would get sick- so for our benefit
we must cook it.

http://www.healthy-food-site.com/processed-food.html

I myself do try to eat healthier ex: garden veggies, fresh fruit.

Dogs can also get sick from salmonella. However, that is an aside.

Unless I have missed something this particular study is not promoting complete, manufactured dog food. It is you that has made the assertion that you thought this was a motivation behind the study. My reading of the study is that it is just another piece in the jigsaw of evidence that suggests the wolf did not turn into the dog overnight; there was an evolutionary process involving the development of a proto wolf that could best exploit a new ecological niche- living alongside humans and sharing their food, part of this would involve being able to thrive on food waste, some of which would be carbohydrate.

I think it is entirely possible that some dogs maybe more wolf-like in some of their morphology and attributes and so may fare better on a mostly protein diet, but not all. It's horses for courses. As I think you have said, you do not know which particular element of the complete foods you tried disagreed with your dogs, perhaps it was a preservative or something else. There are too many variables to judge. The diet you have now chosen for your dogs suits your dogs better but you cannot extrapolate a greater general truth from that.

Yes, the study cited here is only one, but there is lots of other related research out there.

Unless I have missed something this particular study is not promoting complete, manufactured dog food. It is you that has made the assertion that you thought this was a motivation behind the study. My reading of the study is that it is just another piece in the jigsaw of evidence that suggests the wolf did not turn into the dog overnight; there was an evolutionary process involving the development of a proto wolf that could best exploit a new ecological niche- living alongside humans and sharing their food, part of this would involve being able to thrive on food waste, some of which would be carbohydrate.


Yes, have reread link- what you said there makes sense :-)

> No matter how one looks at it you are feeding a processed diet

Yes, indeedie but no, that does not have to be wrong nutritionally and isn't!

>Really don't think dogs are all that healthy on processed food.

The report isn't about manufactured or processed food though, is it? It's about the components of an animal's diet, saying that, contrary to the buzz of the last decade or so, the domestic dog is designed, through natural evolution to utilise an opportunity in the food chain, to digest starch and carbohydrate from 'grains'.