Mum licking their tail end will stimulate them to wee and poo,you may have to smear them with something tasty to get her started, some bitches just refuse to do this and you need to it with cotton wool and warm water.

We got the " pee and poo" down, and yes it was a long night! They didn't cry a lot , it seems as if they were more interested in finding a teat on her back than on her stomach? I have been them latch a couple times but not a constant suckling ? Maybe 5-7 min at the most? We have been supplementing with supplement puppy milk. They drink a little from that, not much. They appear chubby and active. Should I be concerned ?

Phew, nice to read a happy ending afterall!
Hope they all continue to grow and remain healthy, sounds like youve been extremely lucky

Please don't supplement unless mum produces no milk at all. The more they suck from her the more milk she'll produce, so put them on a teat every half hour; if you weigh them every day and there's a steady weight gain you'll know they're getting enough.

she will normaly start to clean pups before she lets them feed or some will do it while feeding ...ofer her a pup holding it in your hands so that she cam see the pups bits down below this is what i use to do when we have a large litter to make sure mum hadnt missed any of the pups ,if mum isnt cleaning themon her own offer pups to her before they feed this is when mum would clean so they can drink better empty bladders and bowls :) x

agree with Jg here the more they suckle the quicker the milk comes!! and that 1st milk is so inportent to the pups they need mum antibodies! x

Ok, I will make sure not to supplement . One site said to so they would suck harder on her. You guys haven't steered me wrong yet . I think she is starting to clean them some. Something good must be going on, I just checked everyone is snuggled up and sleeping . No one is restless or crying . I'm pretty tired right now, luck had something to do with it but I'm more apt to put my stock in good knowledgeable people and prayer. I am blessed that I found you guys and that everything went so smooth. Also that the vet did what I said ( after I point blank told him to), and Bella is now spayed and he did it all for such an great price. Please, If there is any more advice let me know. I am truly grateful , because without everyone yelling c - section I doubt I would have pushed for it. This situation could have gone horribly wrong . I know how much work breeding is, I always have believed in spaying, this situation was one that I was just put into and I am truly blessed it's turning out well.

Regarding the cleaning and also milk coming in, these can be a bit slower than normal because of the C section, if pups aren't loosing weight then they won't need any supplementing.

Encouraging them to feed every time you pass the box will bring the milk in with a vengeance by day three. Pups may be sleepy due to anaesthetic from the C section so need to be woken and put on to feed.

As the others have said the first milk is vital for protection from disease containing Mums antibodies.

About 2 days before she had the section you could gently touch her and milk would come out. It just funny cause when they go to nurse they try to climb from where I put them up on her back. I haven't let Papa near them but her lays outside the bedroom door, when we open it , he jumps up wagging his tail. Then we close it he lays right back down and waits. How long do I have to keep h away from the pups? I also have 2 lab mixes and they are curious about our additions . I heard of a Herpes virus that can be passed to the pups, do even though everyone is up to date on their shots, I have not allowed them near the wee ones.

I don't allow other dogs near pups until their eyes are open or two weeks.  The litter I have now the bitch would not be happy with others around her pups for three weeks.

Sorry guys, another question . Mom is turning down all food this am ? Any ideas?

Fluid is more important at this stage than solid food. Her tummy's very sore - offer her scrambled eggs, or boil up some chicken and give her the broth. She'll find sloppy food easier to digest.

I'm sure you'll have lots of suggestions for tempting her. But one unlikely thing I found that worked with a newly delivered bitch was to give her some free-flow frozen tripe mince in a little Nutrolac. I think the coldness of the frozen tripe mince overcame whatever she was feeling that was putting her off. After a couple of meals or so of that, she wolfed down cooked chicken chunks for a few meals, then back to normal.  It's not unusual for a bitch to be off her food to begin with, many are.

Not sure if you're feeding her in the whelping box? Most bitches don't like leaving their puppies at first. 

The oxytocin she had before the c/section will have helped bring the milk in, she was spayed so didn't need the post c/section oxytocin that some vets give to contract the uterus and seal off the placental beds and help with milk production. Milk is supply and demand so if you supplement then the pups will not be hungery enough to feed of their dam and reducing the amount she has to offer, the bottle is easier to suck so you don't want them to get lazy, the only time I would supplement is if the pup was consistantly losing weight, I would put them to Mum first and then try to offer the bottle, more often than not they will already be full. Make sure that Mum is getting plenty of fluids, goats milk and chicken broth go down very well here, they have no interest in plain water.

When you introduce the  dam and pups to other members of the household varies depends on how the dam is reacting to others around her,my girls have got fed up of being upstairs after about 7 days so they all come down to a crate where they can be seen but not touched, at night they went back up to the whelping pen, this routine continued for about 2 weeks when I brought the puppy pen downstairs for during the day and the crate went upstairs for use at night. By 4 weeks old the others are interacting with the pups overseen by Mum, eventually she hands them over to who ever wants to play with them and watches from the side lines, not all bitches will react this way.

I was still typing when other posts were added

Keep us posted on their progress.

most new mums go off their food its now a case of hand feed her in her bed, and give her what ever she will eat take take anything from 1week to 5weeks like it did for us :( soak her food if your feeding kibble? just helps if their mouth is sore from cleaning pups even tho she only has 2 she can still get a sore mouth...your doing great x

We hand fed scrambled eggs and she drank down some water mixed with puppy formula. She had her first " poop", last night I had her kibble that had been soaking and hand fed her that. Seems to be more if an issue when I'm in the house. When she came to me pregnant at 8 months, I took her with me everywhere. Including work ( I do home care). I was afraid with her being young and pregnant she wouldn't get the right nutrition and would be stressed with the other 3 dogs in the house. ( plus 2 teen boys with friends) so to her I'm everything. I call her Twitter, cause all she does is " follow me" . Lol I created a bond that for her is everything. I just wanted to give her the very best chance I could.

I didn't realise that she was so young, you are lucky that she is mentally mature enough to raise her pups because many bitches wouldn't have been.

This is the time to give her any thing she wants, strong cheddar cheese mixed in with soaked kibbled, cottage cheese,scrambled egg, giving strong cheese means that you don't have to give much for them to get the taste.

When I found out her age and she was 2 weeks pregnant . I panicked, I don't think she was with out me at all for the last 7 weeks . That's why she is super attached

I think I would have taken her to the vet for an injection to stop the pregnancy rather than put a pup through having pups and then got her spayed 3 months later, many don't know about such injections, one can be given up to 6 weeks from mating, we have had members who have said for religious reasons they couldn't do it and some haven't known who the sire was or how far pregnant, won't take them for a scan etc. they don't stay around for long.

Fortunately being a small breed she will have been physically far more mature than a larger breed at 8 months, so should physically suffer little from having a small litter to raise. 

Think of her as a gym slip Mum, needing reassurance that she is doing things right, and a bit bemused by the reality of motherhood.

I wish vets surgery's would have Alizin posters up in the surgery, instead/along with the chipping Flea treatment etc ones.

Where is that like button . However, to a vet they wont get as much profit from the Alizin as they would from an emergency c-section ......

How many vets though would put profit over the safety and welfare of a bitch ? The minority I would imagine :-)

I certainly hope you're right LJS. But you do have to wonder why it isn't made public knowledge that the injection is available ?

I have heard about it, when talking to the vet and others they said that they only recommended within a couple days of the tie.? Not sure why but that's what I was told

That was the case with old type mismate, the newer one mentioned by  Barbara can be given up to 6 weeks, the pups are either reabsorbed or aborted depending on gestation.

I'm not sure he knew much about the shot  . My emergency section, the spay, all day monitoring ,& meds . They charged me $381 ( around that) so I don't think that there was a big profit . Either way I'm grateful , by the way . We did it! ( I couldn't have without all of you!) mom doesn't want to leave the pups for anything , she's cleaning and nursing like an old pro! Thank again!

and it is given for best efficacy after the season has ended, so not the rush to do it within days of the mis-mate.

The best option is then to scan at 35 days to ensure it has been effective, and in the rare case it isn't there is still time to administer another dose.

This is a situation one of my puppy bitch owners found themselves in as even though the pairing would have been perfectly acceptable, the bitch at 14 months was far too young and had not yet had her Hips or eyes tested.

So with enough information available there really is no reason for any unwanted litters.

Yea, I do understand . I'm not a breeder, I got stuck in a situation and I did the best I could with the information at hand . My two dogs are both spayed, this situation I was thrown into, now I had Bella spayed it won't be an issue again. The father and mother are both AKC registered its just they were never for breeding. I'm keeping the female, she will have a great home and will be spayed on time. Everyone wants to purchase the male already. I can't even think about that. I'm thankful they are here and every one is safe.

Yes it's a pity many vets seem so unclued up to the alternatives to snipping out the reproductive organs on every puppy coming into their surgery.

So glad everything turned out ok and Bella is being a good mum in spite of youth and the C-section. Well done to you for asking and following the advice! :-)

I do agree! I think if anyone is not a breeder they should pay a fine if the dog isn't spayed ! My new little pup will be as soon as she is old enough . Her parents will be going back to my step daughters . No worries there either since Bella is now spayed . My newest addition is named  Bliss

I think if anyone is not a breeder they should pay a fine if the dog isn't spayed

Why, I am not a breeder and would never neuter my males unless there was some medical reason and the bitches not until the are at least 7 or have a medical need.

Never considered myself irresponsible and see no reason what so ever why I should be fined.

Ok, well my apologies . I have been very frustrated these last couple weeks because of this 8 month old pup getting pregnant . I know another person who's dog is pregnant because she was never fixed . That dog doesn't even have its shots and gets its food from a dog food bank because they can't afford the cost of food. A guy around the corner from me has a pitbull mix that has had pups he's just giving to kids in the neighborhood . My statement was out of frustration and I do apologize if I offended you or anyone else. Your an exception , I just get fed up because dogs pay the price of the irresponsible owners . At some point people should be held accountable . I really should have explained where I was coming from before I made that statement or at least not made it so black and white.

I just get fed up because dogs pay the price of the irresponsible owners

Could not agree more but why should the responsible be punished for those who are not, any law would be obeyed by the responsible and ignored by the rest so no improvement just the good responsible owners being forced into actions they would rather not take.

Not offended but this does seem to be a very common attitude and any law that can't be enforced is worse than useless and extremely unfair on the law-abiding.

I know that it can't be a law, lt was said more out of frustration than anything. Honestly there has to be a way to address the issue. Most dig owners who get the pups vaccinated and the proper paperwork are responsible . They could easily make it a law that a animal has to have proper paperwork and tags or they can be fined?

Good night all , Bella is wonderful ! I have to carry her down to the bathroom . I can't get her to leave the pups. They are eating well and so is she. I have to hand feed her in the kennel . Papa is laying on the floor by the door and he is just as bad , he won't leave to eat or anything . I have to carry him as wel to use the bathroom. Thanks again !

Pleased to hear that things are going well.

When I move my pups downstairs my older male will sit staring at them, he is forcing himself to stay awake so he doesn't  miss anything, he hasn't been sire to any of them.

The 2 pups which I kept go nuts when I say to them " where is Uncle Rhuari" they go to him and jump all over him, my new bitch does the same now, he is actually her Uncle, her grandmother was Rhuari's litter mate.

I'm back ..... More questions. Bella has never been one to drink much. She is drinking even less now. I was putting water in her mouth with an eye dropper I just took her out to the bathroom and checked her teets and some I can squeeze and get a little milk. Some not at all, before the c section she was dripping . The pups aren't crying and are active . Could her milk production decrease for some reason ?

My girls never drink water post whelping, they get goats milk[not cows], I boil up chicken pieces and give them the broth as well as the chicken, plain yoghurt and cottage cheese all have fluid in them so they get those too, anything to keep them from becoming dehydrated and lose their milk.

Some bitches have very pendulous boobs others don't[human milk production varies too,I had a friend who breast fed both her babies and in the 24 hrs before I would visit she produced 2 large coffee jars of milk which I took back to the prem unit, the rest of the time it was thrown down the drain], if the pups are quiet and gaining weight daily then she must have enough to satisfy them.

If pups suckle well, it is perfectly likely that you won't get much out.  I don't think you need to keep squeezing them!  :-)

As to water, mine would tell me to go take a hike!  Obviously you want a decent fluid intake, so if you can't get goats milk for her right away, you can open a tin of evaporated milk.  Dilute it with warm water first.

They were quiet , plump and happy all night. About an hour ago I noticed the one pup went to nurse and he was sucking so hard his head was going back while he pushed on the teat ( if that makes sense) that's what made me check . I didn't squeeze them hard just enough to see what the issue was. Of course I called the vet and he said to stop and get 4 shots of oxytocin ? Before I go that route , what do u guys think?

Leave well alone if the pups are content and plump. A bitch will drop her milk as the pups suckle. You may find that they pull and mutter for a few minits then once the milk drops they go at it like mad and then fall off the teat and sleep. Its just what nature intended. If you have a large breed like mine and a big litter they will all line up and suck and but and whinge for 5 mins then the milk drops and they stick thier feet out and gulp..its so funny to watch.
Aileen

mmmm

I think this is a personal choice.  I have never given a bitch oxytocin after the event.  And never had any problems.  And I have had a few sections, so have a bit of experience.

As to the pup pushing hard, all totally normal.  And that's what gets the milk coming in.  I'm always amazed at how a really tiny tot can look as if they are going to pull a teat off!  Surprising how strong they can be.

Everything sounds normal to me.

I have a small breed the are " toys " she only has 2 pups, delivered by c section . They suck hard for about 30 sec then scoot away whining

I wouldn't be giving oxytocin now, you don't want her getting engorged with milk and they are too hard for the pup to latch on, it is supply and demand, she should produce the right amount of milk for the number of pups she has.

Ok, I'll wait and watch , you have been right about everything else :@) . Thanks again!

It is perfectly possible to own entire dogs without having accidental litters, and removing a vital part of the dogs hormonal system especially at a young age routinely is not the best answer in most cases.

When I made the statement I was over tired and frustrated , I kinda explained why I was feeling that way . Not sure why we are going back there. It's possible , yes, but I'm not referring to responsible people . I, you nor the fact that it can be done effects irresponsible dog owners. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, again , I was frustrated . I'm tired of seeing dogs pay because people do not do what they are capable of doing or should be doing. Look at my situation , I watched this puppy suffer for days . It shouldn't have been

> I have been very frustrated these last couple weeks because of this 8 month old pup getting pregnant . I know another person who's dog is pregnant because she was never fixed .

The fault is not ensuring they were not mated, by keeping them confined while in season. 

Neutering is not the real answer as often it is those who could responsibly keep their dogs entire without allowing them to wander and become pregnant who neuter, and those who are not responsible who have no intention and often wheat their dogs to reproduce for the experience, pin money, or to save the price of neutering etc.