Sounds like they could do with bringing out a white tartan range lol.

Just to update on the newspaper end rolls (fish and chip paper). Lovely in terms of being able to see what you need to pick up at a glance BUT I'm nearly at the end of the 1,000 sheets so it has only lasted one week (and that's with having bits of newspaper to add to it). I've been as economical as I can with it, but at £15 a go (half of that was for postage, the firm is in London) could work out quite expensive. Saved up newspaper is definitely the way to go imo.

Have had experience of sawdust ..even if they say it is pup friendly there are the odd shards that get through , and pups might inhale it  , even playing get it in their mouths . Inhalation pnuemonia is difficult to shift.

just a thought but is lining paper any good??? its quite cheap, dont know if it will be absorbable or not??

have tried lining paper and it isn't that great :( 

ok ha you can tell i dont breed cant you!! lol

Just replying at the end.  I buy extra large size incontinence pads (I hate newspaper), but I also litterbox train my pups with wood pellet litter.  A lot in my breed in the US have done this and I did it with my last litter and it was GREAT.  Nowhere near the mess I've seen in other people's pens, and by the time they were 4-5 weeks they were about 90% in the litter trays.  When playing outside the pen they would jump back in to go in the litter tray or go to the door to ask out. 

Started by putting the litter trays right outside their bed so that when they stepped out of the bed they were on the litter and that's when they tend to go.  Or if I saw them wake up I'd just put them in the litter.  Started about 3 weeks I think.  Over time I moved the trays further away till they were in their own corner of the pen.  They learned very quickly.  The inco pads (I buy them on ebay now under dog training pads, but these are actually NOT the scented ones, they are the human ones) were absorbent, usually if there was an accident it was a wee - the poo's almost always were in the litter trays.  By 5-6 weeks I stopped using the inco pads and either used vetbed (though they regressed with the vet bed) or just had the plastic tarp down that I was using to protect my carpet.  I then had NO poo's on the tarp, and only the odd wee here and there.

Sorry it's late and I'm tired and my brain's all over the place so I apologise if the reply's a bit choppy, but I have to say it worked for me and was FAR less work and mess than papers.  And the litter was CHEAP from Pets at Home.

Hope this helps someone.

> wood pellet litter

Is this actually the compressed paper pellets, as that is what the stud dog owner in the USA uses with her pups.

I am busily shredding any mail etc that comes through the door, and have about 40kg compressed down now and a year to go for the next litter.  it's free, and I am recycling, with just the cost of the shredder and lubricant.

I still use up any newspaper but shred it by hand and mix with the smaller shreddies.

No - it's compressed wood.  Once it gets wet it just crumbles into wood dust and falls to the bottom of the tray.  I bought gardening trays with low fronts and high backs, but I know others who use the bottoms of plastic dog crates for theirs - makes it easy for pups to get in and out, but keeps the litter inside.

Here's a link to the one I used last time (and intend to again in a week or so) http://www.petsathome.com/shop/lightweight-non-clumping-wood-pellet-cat-litter-by-pets-at-home-58732

I suspect that it's much the same effect.  I just liked that while it was a little extra work at the beginning it was sooo much cleaner and so much less work later on.

Not sure about the 'lightly pine scented' bit, does that make it at all chemically? Would be good if they'd include a pic of the actual litter so you can see what it's like.

No - no chemicals.  I think the 'pine scent' just comes from the fact that it's mostly compressed pine.  I never really noticed a 'pine' scent - just that it smelled a bit like wood

This isn't the same stuff, but looks identical:  http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=pine+cat+litter&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14844573231924933140&sa=X&ei=_xd6TsqgMuev0QXZ36DWAQ&ved=0CIcBEPMCMAI

The reason I went for the wood pellet was that it was odour free, no chemicals, no clumping.  If it gets spread during a play fight I just hoover it up in my dyson handvac and drop it back in the litter tray, emptying/cleaning the tray is easy. 

Just do a google search for wood pellet cat litter and you'll get all kinds of results - all pretty much exactly the same thing.  The Pets at Home was the cheapest and closest.  A lot of it you had to order by the pallet because it's also used as horse bedding.  In fact my friends in the States order it from Horse supply shops as it's cheaper for them to buy as 'horse bedding' than as 'cat litter'.

Thank you for explaining so clearly, the pic was very useful. Think my pups might be tempted to try this (or get in their mouths accidentally)?

I did wonder if they would eat it, but so many people on my breed board had such great success with it, I didn't overthink it.  I never saw any of the pups eating it or mouthing it.  I did have a friend who had a total failure with it as her pups decided it was great to sleep in, so they'd pee in the bedding and sleep in the litter tray (oops!!)

I suppose if they have been used to going on it to be clean from day one, they don't view it as anything else than flooring?

On Fri hubby bought home some shredded paper from work - lovely! It clumps like cat litter and you just pick out the affected areas. Only drawback with our particular paper is that it is in weeny pieces . Hubby works at an airport so security is tight hence the minute pieces. Being this small it gets everywhere (food/water bowls, toys, on your shoes/clothing and the pups themselves) and I'm finding it all over the house lol. I have been taking off my shoes when I leave that area but as the pups march straight through to come and play in the lounge at least 4 times a day, it will come in anyway. You can't be a dog owner and be houseproud lol. I would like to do what Brainless does and shred my own as well as stockpile paper at least a year ahead, if I am ever lucky enough to breed again.  

Yes I used a piece of skirting board to limit the spread of the shreds, but thought it small price to pay for cleaner puppies and less smell, as well as not getting poey feet in my hair while trying to roll sheets of paper in the mornings.

Thank you for that tip Barbara. You definitely need some sort of exclusion zone/barrier as it's like confetti here lol. Agree that it's lovely not to have puppies dancing in poo, bless them, or soggy newspapers to lift though I am putting newspaper down as the underlayer, do you do that as well? I try to distract them by putting their food down and, whilst they're getting stuck in, I'm going round like a dervish. However with the shredded bedding it doesn't feel like such a mad rush as the area seems to stay cleaner?

When thery are in lviign room on a tarp yes, but in the kichen we have ceramic tile so I just have it straight on there, just seemed easier to clean up.

Hi Marisa
We go to the local broadsheet newspaper publishers and buy old copies for 1p each.

They will be happy to keep them for you we have found.

Good luck
Vivie

I have been saving my papers for 2 months now,not planning to mate my bitch til December,so all being well,by February we will have a mountain of papers!

If you live near the end of a railway line, There are always cleaners at terminus stations who bag up bin bags full of newspapers that are left on trains, Im sure they would let you have them.

I work in a manufacturing environment, stick a notice by the clocking in/out machine and you'll get burried in the stuff, I am  :) :) :)

Just thought I would tag on the end...I have a big black sack full of newspaper if anyone wants it. Free for collection from derbyshire.

Hello from Oz. First post here.  I must admit, I didn't read the whole post, and didn't check date of request, as this info is always useful.  One good place to ask, is an old people's home.  Lots of different paper readers in the same place, and unlikely to have an interest in pups, and don't have to know, anyway.  IF you request, DO pick up when you promise, or you will sour them for everyone else.  Also, whenyou have enough, give them notice you will only need one more load.

I ask all my neighbours if they could hold back there newspapers for me, as I have a rabbit who gets through them like no ones business :) or you clould ask your local newsagent if they could do the same for you. ;)

I'm pretty sure the newsagents/other paper sellers return their unsold copies to the supplier

If u ask them personally to keep the papers for you they will, they did for me for awhile then asked my neighbours instead. ;)

I thought they worked on a sale or return type basis?

ooh I dunno about that i just used my charm lol and they said ohh go on then lol ;)

Marisa If you like any where near North Co Durham I can let you have a pile of newspapers as I've managed to get excess . Just email me with your contact details and I will get back in touch. clayton1071@hotmail.co.uk

Ahhhh, thank you for that. I'm not planning on breeding again just yet (it's been nearly a year since Nia's litter and still feels far too soon lol) but am still collecting papers because I never want to be that desperate again lol. Will pm you.

I just collect them from year to year, and then still need to ask friends to keep theirs at the time I have a litter..

At the time, I had only just moved to the area and didn't know a soul but now have dog club members etc to ask if they can save papers.

I'm sure most breeders do this, but it does help save paper.  At 4 weeks old, when the pups have had a week to get used to performing on paper, just put paper thickly at one end of the run.  They will generally be used to going on the paper and (with a few mistakes) you will find most of the mess on the paper.  When the paper is spread out over the whole run it is such a waste to have to pick a sheet up just for one poo or wee, also unless you are watching them like hawks they will run through a little poo and spread the pooey footprints over clean paper which then has to be removed.  When it is in one corner they will all go and do it in the one place after feeding or when waking up and you can just clear the soiled paper and replace it.

Also, this does start the puppies off with paper training for when they go to their new homes.  New puppy owners are generally very impressed to see the pups making their way across the clean vinyl to do their business on the paper!

I think that would only be practical with 8 Border Collie puppies when they are very young (and need less toilet space because they are themselves small) as they would soon end up walking through each other's poo if they are all going in roughly the same area.

Also, I don't recommend using paper at all for house training. I think it creates confusion in the dog's mind that it is ok to wee and poo in the house when I really only want them to do it in the garden. The only exception is if I were going out I might leave some paper down if I were going to be gone for longer than pup could be left in a crate (but more likely just to leave pup on a surface that can easily be cleaned)

Im pretty lucky in that my mums a cleaner and she collects newspapers for me from all her clients. She comes up with piles of them every week.
So if anyone knows a cleaner, they might be of some help.

No, it is when they are over 4 weeks that it works best.  They will all make for the paper after feeding or waking up and you can have 8 puppies all in a huddle pooing and then you just pick the soiled paper up immediately and replace it with clean.  The bare floor part of the run stays mostly clean.  With paper all over the run, the puppies spread themselves out and then all walk through each others poos. 

A lot of puppy owners put newspaper in front of the back door overnight, and it is better that the puppy performs on the paper in one place.  They soon learn to go outside by choice but it is good to have something to guide them when they are left, rather than let the pup just wee and poo anywhere in the room.

Since usign shredded paper (put through shredder or hand shredded newspaper, most often both) puppies don't get pooey feet, as it quickly gets covered by teh shreds, so when they come rushing up to say hello Its easy to pick up clumps of wet or pooh containing paper and bag.

I work in a public library.  We  get several newspapers a day and keep them for a bit (week or month, depending on the paper), then we recycle them - so it might be a good idea to smile nicely in your local library and ask them to save them up for you.  Library staff are really there for the customers, if you ask them nicely (and maybe bring a pic of the puppies to say thanks afterwards) many would be happy to save them up for you to collect each week.  T

My friend works as a business manager in main office for a bank. They have the Financial Times every day and she collects them for me. They are fab as the sheets are so big, it makes less work of it :)

I have spent the last couple of weeks calling in at the local supermarket recycling point and taking out newspapers! I must look such a weirdo but hey it is all clean and folded - in fact most papers don't even look like they have been read!

Join the club. I'm amazed by how many papers are put in to recycling points  unopened/unread. I'm past caring what people think -the loony woman taking papers out, not putting them in. Also, enjoying reading such a huge cross section of the British press as I clear out puppy pen. Also nice when puppies poop right on face of certain celebs.

Having collected newspapers from the Sainsbury Coffee shop which they very kindly saved for me, I find that if I open one of the red top papers and there is a barely dressed/topless woman on that page, I actually find myself thinking 'have to turn that page over, cant have the pups seeing that....' Think six week old pups have made me lose my marbles lol

I use the rolls of beauty couch paper for cleaning up during whelping as its nice and absorbent and reasonably priced if you get a few from eBay.
For the pups I only use pee pads as it gets them used to using them at an early age...they get quite proficient at finding them once walking. I'm lucky in that my best friend is a manager of a care home so I get them free as they get loads of packs of human pads donated on a regular basis, far too many for them to use. I also get loads of old towels as they replace them all each year; I count myself very lucky bless her!

How come she is giving them away ? People pay for that via their taxes to pay for old folk to live in care homes.

I hope she is paying them whilst kindly donating them to you :-)

It does say that they were donated in the first place........  I'm sure that the other excess they donate elsewhere too :)

More often than not the packs have been opened and had a couple taken out, but not always.

The care home is a private one that is mainly for those involved in accidents and care is paid for by insurance compensation payouts. The pads are bought by the relatives using this money and when their loved one departs or they regain their health they donate them to the home to use as they see fit. As the home is for mainly young adults with head injuries/learning difficulties due to traffic injuries, they don't use many and they always used to have to throw them away, they did actually try donating the sealed packs to local elderly care homes but they didn't want them either; this way they are used rather than ending up in landfill.

There is a lot of waste though I agree, for example if a resident has a headache they give them 2 paracetamol from a strip of 12. The rest of the strip cannot then be used by another resident or kept overnight and has to be thrown away. Health and safety and all that!

As I said before I am very fortunate.

Care Homes are not privately funded as there are hundreds of privately owned Care Homes that have a significant revenue income from the NHS , us as tax payers.

That is how this works now as NHS only funded Care Homes are far and few between now.

Hi
My friend buys bags of fish and chip wrapper from her local chippy. There is no print so I think it is better. She pays about £5.
Hope this helps
Sue
xx

We went dumpster diving for newspapers at the local recycling center on Saturday. Got enough to get us through the week. All the big piles were too far back for us to grab! Very frustrating but my husband draws the line at climbing in the bin!