> (written by an owner of straight back long hair chilled temperament types and I dont care if they're the wrong type, they're MY type)!

These are my type too, except short hair.

No the Old American type your referring to, I was suggesting to Brainless yesterday, that this is the type I expect the judge to be looking for, (not my choice). You will see it here 6th down.
http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html

The only one I'm keen on is the 11th down. But maybe with a nicer furrier, chunky neck.

Sian x

>The only one I'm keen on is the 11th down. But maybe with a nicer furrier, chunky neck.

Ditto - midway between that and the 7th down would be a very nice looking dog IMO!

Thats interesting Sian to see the differences and just going on the back ends and backs themselves from picture 11 onwards I like, but what I like and what is correct clearly are different??
Would any of the dogs from picture 11 onwards meet the breed standard? As it can be interpreted in many different ways..

> Ditto - midway between that and the 7th down would be a very nice looking dog IMO!

I agree it would be a nice looking dog (shape wise), but to be honest I only like the black and gold colourings of a GSD

> Thats interesting Sian to see the differences and just going on the back ends and backs themselves from picture 11 onwards I like, but what I like and what is correct clearly are different??
> Would any of the dogs from picture 11 onwards meet the breed standard? As it can be interpreted in many different ways..

Again pictures 11 and 12 I prefer out of any, with a little more fur and fluffyness, especially around the neck line.
The link was courtesy of Brainless.
This is what Brainless was telling me, alot depends on the judge, German and English judges have different views on breed standards.

The topline runs without any visible break from the set on of the neck, over the well defined withers,

Did ask earlier but would love to know what this line from the standard means, if there are any GSD people or Pastoral judges I would be grateful to have it explained, how there can be no visible break from neck to back and yet have the withers well defined, seems impossible but would love to know what is actually meant. Thanks.

Now I like the 3rd and 4th, to me they would be more middle of the road, not too long and not too long/sloping in croup..

Suejaw, because this was your original topic, and I feel I hijacked it a little with all this GSD talk.
It would be rude of me not to take an interest in your chosen breed, and what made you have Bernese Mountain dogs and what started you showing them? If you have a minute only...

Ditto Brainless and Nova, why Norwegian Elk Hounds? If you had a minute, I'm genuinly interested to know..

Thanks

Sian

Just counted down the pictures and it's 6 and 7 I like best. The 'Panda' one is rather fun though! I know someone with Utonagons, they do seem a nice laid back breed, bigger and sturdier than the shepherd though, I guess that's the malamute coming out.

> Just counted down the pictures and it's 6 and 7 I like best.

Don't you think they are too slopey at the back end though? I am sure these types are the ones that you see as they get older, that drag their back legs and wobble as they walk, it's a shame. I've not ever seen a Malamute, so I'm just about to google to see what the fuss is about.

> why Norwegian Elk Hounds?

Natural canine, adaptable, handy medium size, attractive easy care coat, sociable (canines and people), not too needy (affectionate but not clingy), good watch dog.

I was trying to match dogs to the written standard not what I like aesthetically.

Not because they are quite uncommon, so breeding them would be quite lucrative, because you can ask a high selling price for them and if people want that particular breed off a reputable breeder like yourself then they would pay the asking price.

So matching dogs to the written standard means having a chance at winning at dog shows (thus improving the saleability of your pups, to possible showers not just family households). Although probably limited numbers of your breed are shown at breed shows compared to other breeds, your chance of winning is just as tough because standards are probably so high.

> Not because they are quite uncommon, so breeding them would be quite lucrative,

common misconception.  Often some of the least numerical breeds are far less or just average price wise as they have breeders whose prime interest is their breed not what they can sell puppies for.

it's those who jump on the bandwagon of something fashionable that charge high prices, out of all proportion to the cost and efforts in breeding and rearing them..

Not because they are quite uncommon, so breeding them would be quite lucrative, because you can ask a high selling price for them and if people want that particular breed off a reputable breeder like yourself then they would pay the asking price.

Can understand why people may think this but my breed are probable sold for what would be considered the lowest sort of price you would pay for a well bred pure breed, but you do usually have to wait for your puppy, I have waited for 2 years as breeders only breed when they wish for a puppy themselves or they have a very large waiting list.

Most pups are sold to show owners or enthusiasts but in each litter there will be one or perhaps two new to the breed owners and they are the people who will need most help with thelr puppy.

Showing a breed of low numbers is much the same because we have less opportunity to show at Open level and there are less CC on offer at Championship shows so it does even it's self out. As a breed N. Elkhounds do seem to take high honours and many stakes wins but I am not sure if this is the quality of the hounds or the habit of the Elkhound owners to be active in entering additional classes.

> Can understand why people may think this but my breed are probable sold for what would be considered the lowest sort of price you would pay for a well bred pure breed, but you do usually have to wait for your puppy, I have waited for 2 years as breeders only breed when they wish for a puppy themselves or they have a very large waiting list.
>

Would you be prepared to pay more for your breed though? If people have a very long waiting list then obviously demand is high, so they could charge more for the pups.

Would you be prepared to pay more for your breed though?

Yes I would pay the going rate whatever that was as long as I could afford it.

If people have a very long waiting list then obviously demand is high, so they could charge more for the pups.

It is not that there is a high demand but that breeders do not breed for money but only because they or others want a puppy. I sometimes feel that the breeders only charge at all because they could not afford to continue without the help from the puppy purchasers there are no longer groups of wealthy breeders around who can run large kennels and produce a supply of pups so we are reliant on those few people who are willing (and able) to continue breeding and keeping the breed in line with the standard and the original purpose which we are fortunate is still the purpose in their country of origin.

So basically you make little money, but just make sure your expenses are met, and a little for your time and effort, you put in looking after your puppy buyers, if they need you in the future, that's really fair enough. Thank you Nova.

It's reasuring to know there are breeders out there who really care for their breed enough to continue breeding top quality dogs, even though it's not a huge money earner.

TBH Sian I do not breed but would doubt if every litter makes a profit, in fact I can think of one due in the near future that definitely will not. I think that people in my breed will take the whole thing into consideration and will not care if an individual litter makes money or not if they want to breed a particular bitch to a particular stud they will be prepared to take the whole cost themselves in order to continue their breeding program in the way they think best.

Most show breeders will not really make money if you take into account the feeding, vet fees and showing expenses as well as the expense incurred in the production of a litter and then most will keep their oldies as well so more expense there.

The act of breeding is not really to produce puppies it is to produce better puppies so the desire to breed is driven by your personal research and thoughts and ideas on how you can improve your line more than the wish to produce puppies. Good breeders breed to improve on the last generation and they will fund it themselves if needs be in the same way as anyone enthusiastic about their hobby will be prepared to fund it.

Sorry Nova asking you all these questions I forgot you don't actually breed yourself.

It must bring great satisfaction though to those that do breed, when they see their hard work and dedication pays off, when they produce better and better future lines, time after time. And if they keep in touch with a particular buyer, and that buyer has successfully shown a dog you have bred, this also must give great satisfaction.

It sounds like a wonderful hobby for the right person. You can not beat working/spending time with animals.

Thanks again.

Sorry Nova asking you all these questions I forgot you don't actually breed yourself.


No problem, I keep males but believe you have to understand why a breeder is breeding before you can buy a puppy from them with confidence & in my case I am deeply interested in my breed and its welfare and future so what our breeders are doing is of great concern to me as well as frustration a times.

> It must bring great satisfaction though to those that do breed, when they see their hard work and dedication pays off, when they produce better and better future lines, time after time. And if they keep in touch with a particular buyer, and that buyer has successfully shown a dog you have bred, this also must give great satisfaction.
>

By Jove she's got it, LOL ;)

Nova is too modest to say, she is deeply involved in our breed, shows and judges and also is involved with running a successful Hound Group show.

To me they look considerably less slopey than the ones at the top which I think are the modern type. I'm no expert particularly not on GSDs though! Malamutes are gorgeous dogs, very striking in appearance.

>Don't you think they are too slopey at the back end though? I am sure these types are the ones that you see as they get older, that drag their back legs and wobble as they walk, it's a shame. I've not ever seen a Malamute, so I'm just about to google to see what the fuss is about.

> By Jove she's got it, LOL ;-)

Good golly I believe I have. Who said I'm slow on the uptake? :)

> I'm no expert particularly not on GSDs though! Malamutes are gorgeous dogs, very striking in appearance.
>

Join the club. I took a look at your Malamute friends, and I agree they are lovely. Are you going to get one?

Who me?? No way, I think they're very handsome dogs but FAR too big for me! :-D

Do you know, I was expecting you to say you have 2, honestly. LOL And because you sound (on here anyway) very sweet and tiny like (just the picture I have in my head, for some reason lol) I was picturing your daily walk, or should I say daily drag. You would have very long arms that's for sure.

Don't tell me, I have my crystal ball, It's telling me (and I have never noticed from your postings what you have honestly) your breed of dog is, can I be greedy and have 2 guesses?

1. I do know you show, so maybe chihuahua.
2. but then again I don't picture you as a Paris Hilton type, nor the Queen type so I won't say Corgie either. but you live in the country so....Margot Leadbetter in a few years perhaps, and I'll say some sort of Spaniel..that covers a wide variety, I must have a chance with this choice. LOL

Not bad on the breed guess, I have Cavaliers and an American cocker! But definitely not sweet and tiny, I'm loud, fat and lazy!! Definitely not Paris Hilton, my preferred clothing is a sweatshirt with dog pictures and dog hair, and scruffy jeans! :-D

>Do you know, I was expecting you to say you have 2, honestly. LOL And because you sound (on here anyway) very sweet and tiny like (just the picture I have in my head, for some reason lol) I was picturing your daily walk, or should I say daily drag. You would have very long arms that's for sure.

>Don't tell me, I have my crystal ball, It's telling me (and I have never noticed from your postings what you have honestly) your breed of dog is, can I be greedy and have 2 guesses?

>1. I do know you show, so maybe chihuahua.

>2. but then again I don't picture you as a Paris Hilton type, nor the Queen type so I won't say Corgie either. but you live in the country so....Margot Leadbetter in a few years perhaps, and I'll say some sort of Spaniel..that covers a wide variety, I must have a chance with this choice. LOL

> my preferred clothing is a sweatshirt with dog pictures and dog hair, and scruffy jeans! :-D
>

I can see I might be a little overdressed for Midland..LOL

Haha that's my preferred clothing for at home. My show clothes are a plain jumper and casual trousers, the ones I wear for work in fact. Still covered in dog hair mind you..... :-D I might have to splash out on a suit for next year when the puppy gets in the ring.

>I can see I might be a little overdressed for Midland..LOL

> I might have to splash out on a suit for next year when the puppy gets in the ring.
>

Oh no, you're not one of them that dresses the dog up are you? LOL

Haha only for fancy dress competitions or Christmas parties, not as a usual event! Anyway best stop hijacking this thread before we get in trouble....

>Oh no, you're not one of them that dresses the dog up are you? LOL

Ok, but I'm sure suejaw wouldn't mind. :)

But others might.. ;) don't want to feel the CDs wrath again..LOL

I think this thread branched off happily on it's meandering way a log way back, LOL.

> Ok, but I'm sure suejaw wouldn't mind

Humph... Nah its fine, my question was answered waaaay back.. Time off book and confirmed...

You guys carry on.. Its interesting..

> Anyway best stop hijacking this thread before we get in trouble....
>

Lucydogs if you're there I like getting into trouble..LOL Where where we...