> So what would people think if it was a bunny look alike, and your dog put up a hare? 

If my Boxer or Cavalier murders ever managed to catch a hare I would try to get it off them, slow cooked they are delicious.

Rabbits and rats are excluded from the Hunting Act...however, some who have admitted the chase down of other mammals may find the following worthy of note...

The Act deliberately does not define hunting with dogs because the term should be understood in its ordinary English meaning, which includes using dogs to chase  wild mammals, or pursue them with the intention of catching or killing them. The deliberate use of dogs to chase a wild mammal, even if there is no intention of catching it, is hunting and as such is prohibited by the Act. This may include the failure to prevent dogs from chasing wild mammals.

So, next time your dog takes chase after a deer, hare, squirrel or any other mammal - please note you are committing an illegal offence.

Absolutely astonished by this thread.

I don't think people are saying they would encourage their dogs to hunt wildlife therefore "The deliberate use of dogs to chase a wild mammal, even if there is no intention of catching it, is hunting and as such is prohibited by the Act" doesn't apply.  I wonder how many people have dogs that have trundled off into the undergrowth and killed something without the owner even knowing?

>So, next time your dog takes chase after a deer, hare, squirrel or any other mammal - please note you are committing an illegal offence.

The law made it clear that it's deliberately setting your dogs (there must be more than 2) after a non-exempt mammal that's the offence; there's no offence committed if you're out walking your dogs and they unexpectedly put up and chase an animal, even if they kill it. The intent wasn't there.

My least-likely-to-ever-hunt dog was out with the gang on the weekend and out of nowhere pounced on a very small baby rabbit. There was nothing I could do to rescue it, and because they are bred to flush and retrieve the poor thing lasted longer than I hoped :(. I had to bury it when I finally got it off him, but that was after he ran up to a table of picnickers to show them his prize...not our best ever day.

Taken from DEFRA

There can be no such thing as accidental hunting. The Act makes clear that hunting with dogs includes engaging alone or participating with others in the pursuit of a wild mammal where a dog is used in that pursuit.

and

This may include the failure to prevent dogs from chasing wild mammals.

and from another government site:

'Hunting' includes using one or more dogs to chase a wild mammal

I think that's fairly clear.

lol Nova I have hens and cockerels that have been flushed and retrieved many times over, much to their utter disgust. The dogs have never once harmed them but they just love it when we all start squawking

>I think that's fairly clear.

So is this which states:

"Hunting is an intentional activity and there can be no such thing as unintentional hunting. Thus, if a dog runs off after a squirrel in the park, the person accompanying the dog would not be guilty of unlawful hunting (unless he or she then used the dog to hunt the squirrel). Equally, if dogs being used in drag-hunting were to run off after a fox, the drag-hunters would not be guilty of unlawful hunting (unless they then used the dogs to hunt the fox). "

In these cases the intent (of the owner) is not to deliberately go out to hunt animals with dogs; the chase was accidental so there was no intent to hunt.

Basically, if it was unintentional on the part of the owner it is not 'hunting'.

This is my opinion only.
To kill any animal for pleasure is very wrong but to kill an animal for food is a different kettle of fish. Killing for food has happened since time began and I believe that kill instinct is very near the surface in many dogs.  Whether domesticated or wild any animal may still chase and kill for food with the instinct for survival still very strong, no matter that they have a bowl of food at home their instinct takes over. At that moment when they see a furry or feathered creature the food/survival emotion takes over. This is not hunting in the true sense as hunting is done for pleasure.
But as I said, this is my opinion.

As a matter of interest just how would you stop a dog/hound giving chase when being exercised off leash. Just what sort of training would you undertake to achieve this. As I stated before mine only give chase and hold expecting me to deal with the prey but they do kill mice and rats. How do you stop them giving chase or should I put no trespassers notice on the field gates. I am also guilty of laughing at one of mine that chase our very fat woodies out of the garden, I laugh not at the pigeon's distress (if it is distressed which I doubt) but the exaggerated back peddling done by the hound if it looks like he may actually catch it. 

Not sure I agree that hunting is done for pleasure, in most cases it is done as vermin control - it is true the handler may well get pleasure from watching his dog/hound work but the 'pleasure' of the kill is more to do with a successful days work.

Is there any difference to a dog picking up and retreiving game shot by a human, than to a dog chasing and killing a rabbit or squirel or any other rodent ?

TBH I think with the right approach you can get any dog to ignore any prey item but it will take time and repitition. I recently worked with a patterdale who killed six of the owners free range chickens. By the end of our second training session he was walking around the chickens off lead not even looking at them. This was achievable because of an effective method from me and the owners commitment to the dog which meant she did it everyday between times. The availablity of chickens also helped.

Adam

Trouble is they may only come across something to chase on occasion and they are always too far away. So without deliberately releasing prey items how can you train. Agree you can stop a dog chasing sheep or chickens because they are easy to arrange contact a rabbit, pheasant or duck is a different matter.

aha. now that adam post i like. exactly my way of thinking. you just get the dogs bored with familiar chickens and make them understand they are not toys to chase. now i am not an expert, but i disapprove of dogs chasing livestock. in teh wild in particular ! hardly any wildlife around ! why kill what is out there ? is my thinking ! plenty food at the shops. or breed your own. BESIDES that...dogs running off hunting in extreme excitement are just OUTTA CONTROL...so need to be stopped from being a nuissance, getting lost, getting run over, and annoying other animals.

the question of RABBITS...well that is funny...my pup is quite happy and unafraid of dogs, cats...but when i put her in front of all my rabbit hutches and took out a small rabbit to show her ? she BACKED OFF !!! LOL !! semed AFRAID of it even ! she was hissed at by a furry cat mother with kittens once...maybe she thought all these little ones had mothers that were going to hiss and attack her i thought...but a BELGIAN PUPPY was NOT going to CHASE ANY RABBITS There !!! LOL ! i laughed and laughed at that...my previous dogs left my pet rabbits alone years ago i add. my pet fox tried to attack it when a pup,,,then got thumped by adult rabbit and ignored it like the dogs. things can be trained to live in harmony.

The training does work on unfamilar animals (e;g on a walk) but its better if you start with one you can control first. If a dog just chases the occasional deer/sheep on a walk I might just improve the recall so he can be called off.
The ignore it training is really useful if you walk around lots of prey or if your dog lives with it/in close proximity to it.

Adam

> TBH I think with the right approach you can get any dog to ignore any prey item but it will take time and repitition.

Does that approach involve an electric shock collar?

Depends on the dog. You can use an e collar and using one is probably the best way to go in terms of effective and low/no stress on the dog. You can also use sound aversion such as discs but they are usually more severe than an e collar.
You can also use rewards for looking away, but many dogs fuind prey more rewarding than any rewards you have.

Adam

> You can also use sound aversion such as discs but they are usually more severe than an e collar.
>

If I had to choose between an electric shock or the painless sound of training discs the discs would win every time! how you can make such a ridiculous statement beggars belief.

yes but READ...the PAIN to EARS of the discs is said to be worse than a short sharp electric shock ! so surely less pain is best ? now all this anti corporal is fine...EXCEPT on the ONE OCCASION that i admit i THREW the lead when pup was for the FIRST TIME so overexcited in the field she was not responding to my RECALL...there is a BUSY ROAD at the end of the field, i was not going to REACH her in time if she kept running nose to ground ignoring everything around her as she was...so ? i did nto have an electric collar...and am not interested in them of course, i THREW the lead so that it caught her rump....now i am a good shot...knives...arrows...generally...and it was not a WHACK...it just SURPRISED her...but i HAD to shock her to WAKE HER UP to pay me attention. and once i say ...is ok for a hit like that...the dog CHANGES its behaviour ...she did..more i add due to GETTING OVER THE INITIAL EXCITEMENT of some new experience...the FIELD for the VERY FIRST TIME full of SMELLS BIRDS MICE etc !

I do not have a breed that is over excitable like say a patterdale terrier...my breed as i have been told and had to learn the hard way responds VERY BADLY to coporal punishment..so i HAVE to do it otherwise...and it is PATIENCE for that...and i have to say...i have not had to STRUGGLE to get her to obey me about stopping at kerbs, not jumping on people in excitement...from the start...the word NO seems to be understood and complied with for that ...NOT FOR NOT BITING ME IN PLAY I ADD YET AGAIN ! i am a TOY to this pup ! i must READ these books to understand why I AM THE ONLY THING SHE GRABS BY JAWS LOCKS ON AND SHAKES AND NIPS AND DRAWS BLOOD ON !!! LOL !!! not even the KITTEN gets the treatment i get !he just came in ! i said to pup...TIGROU DIT BONJOUR ! and ? she went pouncing over without biting him ! they are in kitchen now playing hide and seek...sigh...i have 2 KITTENS not a pup here i add...she is becoming a CAT !

This is why I asked the question about a hare, if you are encouraging your dog to chase rabbits, and the next second it chases something *else*, you could be in a bit of a tricky situation.  Which is why, it's best, imo, if you discourage your dog from ever chasing anything.  Apart from the fact that you may be in danger of your dog coming a cropper if it hits a bit of tricky terrain, or even worse, if you're close to a road. 

Besides, I think it's so much more rewarding to know you can recall your dog away from something like that, the training you have put into achieving something like that shows you have a good working relationship with them, although I have to admit I do have a slightly easier breed to deal with than something like a terrier or a sight hound, lol!

> but READ...the PAIN to EARS of the discs is said to be worse than a short sharp electric shock !

The sound that training discs make is not ear piercing,discs do not cause pain in any way,what they do is distact the dog from what it is doing so you can get attention focused back onto you.

If it got up and ran away there is no doubt about what my Meg would do because she has already caught, killed and eaten a wild rabbit under my nose and there was nothing I could do to prevent it.  However on my morning walk we pass a garden where the pet rabbit and guinea pig are allowed the run of the garden - they do not blink an eyelash as Meg walks past within inches so Meg only gives them a glance.  Same with the hens on the allotment - they are so used to having dogs pass they don't react.  When Meg sees my daughter's hens they cluck and panic - so it triggers Meg's chase reflex.  I think that has a lot to do with it.

My first dog - a lovely quiet Irish Setter bitch spotted a rabbit in the field - the rabbit saw her.  They both stood stock still - I don't know who moved first - but the next moment they were both running as fast as they could - AWAY from each other.

>Absolutely astonished by this thread.

colliecrew I've had a read through of the whole thread and the majority of people before your first post were responding to the question about being 3" away from a rabbit.  That is neither chasing or hunting.

Following your point about wildlife not being treated with respect, you got responses discussing 'prey species' and most contributors were mentioned accidental flushing and chasing.  Lots of people said it's only rabbits, sometimes squirrels, and only really when they pop up under their dogs noses.  Some said their dogs would probably chase and might kill in the right circumstances, so these are thoretical responses only (acknowledging a natural instinct to hunt).  I don't think many (anyone?) said they set their dogs on to game and most said they do not encourage or allow it.  Additionally there are plenty of posters who've said they are extremely careful around wildlife AND livestock.

Have I missed something - I'm really not sure exactly what you are astonished by?   

> This is why I asked the question about a hare, if you are encouraging your dog to chase rabbits, and the next second it chases something *else*, you could be in a bit of a tricky situation.

I haven't read anyones posts about encouraging their dogs to chase rabbits. I admitted that I actually enjoy seeing my dogs chase as it's a natural thing for them, but I still don't encourage them to do it. It happens by accident occasionally when we're out walking.

> Apart from the fact that you may be in danger of your dog coming a cropper if it hits a bit of tricky terrain, or even worse, if you're close to a road.

I'd like to think that most people with sighthounds (which are probably the most difficult to stop from chasing) only let them off lead in safe areas, certainly mine are only off lead in places were they could never run onto a road. Tricky terrain is no problem, if dogs are off lead and negotiating difficult terrain regularly they become very good at it. Interestingly mine are just as likely to injure themselves in flat fields.

I've never tried to stop mine from chasing rabbits, nor would I want to. My collies will recall from anything, they're usually hanging round me anyway, walking backwards in front of me trying to get me to fling their ball for the hundreth time. I find walking with hounds very enjoyable, they mooch along beside you, undemanding, then if they see something to chase they run like the wind and you get the thrill of watching them run :-)

> now all this anti corporal is fine...EXCEPT on the ONE OCCASION that i admit i THREW the lead when pup was for the FIRST TIME so overexcited in the field she was not responding to my RECALL...there is a BUSY ROAD at the end of the field

The lesson to be learnt here is only let your pup off lead in safe areas until she has a better recall. Every pup I get is off lead from it's first walk, but these are always in safe, fully fenced fields where if the pup got a fright and bolted it couldn't come to any harm.

tigger2 !! silken hounds ! but ? i see BORZOI dogs !! LOL ! ooh..i heard the STARE of a BORZOI is very DISCONCERTING...ETRANGE ! why the Russian Aristocracy like them so much ! mysterious dogs ! and they say the Scottish Colley is a long way back crossed with this breed to get more elegance ! huge animals...like greyhounds...hounds...hunters...well now...where were we ? ah off lead stuff...pup is fine in teh unfenced fields now...we are far from road, and she HATES cars and will go nowhere near the road unless i insist...she now agrees to WALK herself to my underground garage to it...barking and moaning still as she does not WANT to get in a car...but associates my car now with OUTINGS she likes !! ON LEAD !

she is on lead anywhere near the main road i am on about. and looks MOURNFULLY up at me as we approach and WAIT there...watching the cars passing...it annoys me sometimes if a car STOPS to let us cross...i always cross when NO CAR is there like that...so that pup can learn...SEE CAR THAT CLOSE ?? NO GO ! so i wave the cars on...will not cross...they get annoyed...stuff that...if i am not at zebra crossing ? which i am not ! then DO NOT FORCE ME TO CROSS THE ROAD i say to that ! how do THEY know i am about to cross at a NON ZEBRA CROSSING ? well because it is FRANCE and the one 10 meters away PEOPLE IGNORE and cross elswhere !!! LOL !

i use the zebra when not with pup...ages ago now...over a month...WITH PUP ? i decide where on the road i cross...sometimes out of field yes...but she HATES approaching the road...SENSES we may be about to PUT LEAD ON so ? she PLAYS UP and starts FETCHING BALL AWAY from the road...pulling my bag...things out of my hands...to MOVE AWAY FROM THE ROAD !!! LOL !!! she much prefers it in the field...not walkies on pavements i add...she knows that is MAGASIN...SHOP walkies...not so keen on them.

oh, as to WHY anyone would want to STOP A DOG FROM CHASING A RABBIT ? well LOSING The dog is one good reason i suggest ! a dog of my breeder got lost...or i think STOLEN...running off after a FOX i add...difficult to call back a dog that chases for sure...any breed...it is DOG INSTINCT i think...but hey...if a dog is OUTTA MY SIGHT ? i am UNHAPPY ! rabbit could RUN ACCROSS THE ROAD ! they do ! and dog would follow ! horror of horrors.

ALL dogs should be made to OBEY the RECALL ORDER ! however difficult to achieve ! or ? one takes the RISK of LOSING a dog...if said rabbit can run like the wind ! and wild ones can ! not my TAME ones i add of 5 kilos weight...useless creatures for RUNNING...never SEEN them run in fact ! RUN RABBIT RUN RABBIT RUN RUN RUN !don't let the farmer catch you with his gun gun gun ! song i recall...well DOG ? if down a hole...accross a railway line...road...dog will face OTHER things than RABBITS FACING HEADLIGHTS of a car frozen to deal with ! and you as owner ? INSURANCE CLAIMS !!! so ? i say...NEVER LET DOG OUTTA SIGHT ! and ? RECALL TRAIN TO PERFECTION ! any breed...or ? take a BIG RISK if a CHASER dog !

Ok, badly worded, I meant more that if you don't discourage them and allow them to chase should they flush *something*, could this be interpreted in the wrong light should someone be watching and possibly report you??  If you're not actively seen to be trying to stop the chase and possible kill, it could be viewed in a very negative light. 

I know what you mean about sight hounds that are used to tricky terrain, I used to walk my two round a woods, and Tau had great fun with a whippet friend, chasing it through the trees, and boy could that thing shift and negotiate very tricky terrain at speed!

Going back to original question, they both would chase and kill it they could catch it.. They do love roadkill !!  This is not trained, this is instinct for them.

As for having a pet rabbit, would be too late now, but raised at a young age who knows.

granny thinks its something to fast to chase and cant be bothered , middle boy well its fair game and his favorite past time is catching pheasants as they take off  he ends it very quickly and we take them home for tea and the youngest just thinks it fun to chase  but never catches them be it bunnies . squirels or birds , i have never encouraged it but i think its just natural behaviour

> I meant more that if you don't discourage them and allow them to chase should they flush *something*, could this be interpreted in the wrong light should someone be watching and possibly report you?

The relevant paragraph has already been quoted... "Thus, if a dog runs off after a squirrel in the park, the person accompanying the dog would not be guilty of unlawful hunting (unless he or she then used the dog to hunt the squirrel). Equally, if dogs being used in drag-hunting were to run off after a fox, the drag-hunters would not be guilty of unlawful hunting (unless they then used the dogs to hunt the fox). "

It's pretty clear that anyone out walking their dog that flushes a wild animal and chases it is NOT guilty of hunting :-)  This is (thankfully) a very common sense approach as dogs do chase :-)

The biggest behavioural problem people face with their dogs today is that the dogs display tendencies, behaviours and traits which their owners either dont like or cant cope with.

GSDs guarding, collies obsessing, Sibes running, PJR ratting digging and hunting, Springers 'birding'..the list is endless.

There comes a time when enough is enough...to say that a Borzoi shouldn't catch a rabbit and eat it is PC gone mad IMO.
Roll on the EuroDog. The bland, medium sized - medium colour - medium activity which doesnt express any trait which wont fit into the modern PC household

....and has a pocket on it's butt for it's remote control.

::::clapping

Excellent post Toolz :-)

Spoke to the gamekeeper today of the estate and asked for his opinions on people with pet dogs allowing (or failing to prevent their dog from chasing) wildlife (red squirrels, pheasants, partridge, deer, rabbit, hare, fox, are some of the usual encounters when walking here). After his face had returned to normal colour (from being pillar box red) and being assured that I have NOT seen this on the estate, he was very clear that they would be escorted from the estate and not be welcome to return.

Firstly, he believed this indicated an out of control dog. Secondly, would the person know how to humanely cull an animal which a dog had injured (or would the person be happy to allow an injured animal to suffer slowly?).

Someone asked why this thread has astonished me? I really don't feel the need to explain this.

I am respectfully now backing out of this thread and from the forum :) Thank you to all who have offered advice in the past

Kind regards

I wouldn't want mine to catch anything and eat it, it's completely against what they are bred to do!  They may have an instinct to chase, as most dogs will have, but they were bred to retrieve to hand under control.  So yes, although they have the instinct to chase, dogs shouldn't be allowed to carry on the chase or kill any animal/wildlife, and for those breeds who were bred to hunt in some form, it would be a complete no, no to eat any game they did manage to get hold of. 

And it might be pc gone mad, but a lot of the world is made up of pc gone mad people, and their opinions count for a lot.  You only have to look at the persecution of those surrounding countryside sporting activities, shooting, fishing and the like, to see pc gone mad.  Even the RSPB, a charitable organisation, has taken a political stance against wildfowling. 

And just another thought, the original post was about a pet bunny, how would you feel if your dog that you didn't discourage from chasing, managed to get hold of a pet bunny and ate it?  If you hadn't discouraged it in the past, you can't really expect it not to should the opportunity arise? 

Not at all meant to be a critical post, but trying to give my thoughts (for what they're worth, probably not an awful lot I know) on the issue ;) and I hate it when you post on topics like this as there isn't any way to hear the emphasis on what I'm posting, hence the disclaimer....

>Someone asked why this thread has astonished me? I really don't feel the need to explain this.

That was me, and because I genuinely cannot seem to 'see' the same bits you are reading.  I read it all the way through and from your response can only conclude I'm missing something...

I posted a response just now but deleted as I thought I would get shot down for letting my gsd chase and kill and eat a wild rabbit.  I know it may not be the most natural instinct for a gsd to do but she does it.  I agree with you tooolz, it bugs me when people dislike their dogs for doing what comes natural to them.

> he was very clear that they would be escorted from the estate and not be welcome to return

If in Scotland he wouldn't have the right to do that. People are legally allowed to roam over estates, and their dogs are legally allowed to chase rabbits :-) 

It's completely natural for dogs to chase things that pop up in front of them. Some people may choose to stop their dogs doing that and some people enjoy watching the dog demonstrate the abilities they have been bred for centuries for.

> I am respectfully now backing out of this thread and from the forum

Why leave the forum just because people have different opinions from you? This is a discussion forum, people have been discussing this matter in a civilised manner, I don't see why you would leave because of that?

They both stood stock still - I don't know who moved first - but the next moment they were both running as fast as they could - AWAY from each other.

:-D :-D The image of that is a classic, wish you had that on film! :-D Bless!

Im sorry this post has caused friction between some people.  It was not intended to do that at all.  It was that I was so proud of all my crew, dog, rabbit and two cats for all getting on happily together.  Perhaps we should learn a lesson from them.

>It was that I was so proud of all my crew, dog, rabbit and two cats for all getting on happily together.

Quite right too!

Of course there's quite a difference between pet bunnies and wild ones; dogs that are brought up with small furries, and those that aren't.    ... and then there are terriers...

I have a gun dog and a terrier and find their differences fascinating, particularly to anything that might be construed as prey - even feet under a duvet! :) 

> wish you had that on film

It is one of the fond memories I have of a beautiful gentle dog that we lost at the age of 7 - far too young.  It was our children's first pet - at the time I had agreed to take on a kitten when my daughter asked for a pet.  My hubby said 'but we always said we would have a dog'   Hence Molly came into our house one day and Kitty Whiskers (my daughter's choice!) the next.  They always got on so well together - it is lovely when you have a harmonious household as the poster says.  When my next dog came along the cat could not be left alone in the room with him.  He always squashed her with his paws to keep her still so he could sniff her.  He killed a number of spiders like that too - being curious. :-)

I have a gun dog and a terrier and find their differences fascinating, particularly to anything that might be construed as prey - even feet under a duvet!

I absolutely agree. I have a terrier and I love her terrier ways and she is so different to my other dogs. If I had wanted a dog that did everything it was told with no questions and no strong will then I would not have bought a terrier. She is learning recall well and all good behaviour, but there are times when she must be allowed to follow her natural instincts and run like a loony and if this means chasing rabbits then so be it. She must be allowed 'time out' and cannot be on a tight leash all the time and must be allowed to be a terrier. I would hate to train all her terrier nature out of her.
Regards the estate manager, I can imagine our local manager going red in the face at the thought of dogs killing his wildfowl as they are such a money earner. All those little chicks bred purely to be released on days when well paying business men are standing in a line on a fun day out ready to shoot the poor little souls out of the sky for pleasure and sport, many birds just injured and left to die. At least dogs are not cruel, they kill quickly and for a reason, usually food.

All mine chase rabbits, one is quick enough to catch some and i dont tell her not too.  We have pet guinea pigs which all my dogs are fine with, they have open topped runs and the dogs just accept them and ignore them.  We dont own any cats and all mine dislike them for whatever reason, they only have the opportunity to chase a cat if one enters our garden which doesnt happen often!

I really wouldn't have believed that my Bernese had a particularly strong prey drive however on an outing with my dad she nabbed a rabbit which had foolishly got itself into the recycling area where my dad was dumping some bottles. The dog was on lead but the rabbit was obviously cornered and Bramble nabbed it - over in a flash. Up until then I would have said that she wouldn't hurt a fly! Chasing - she would never catch a rabbit! My setter chases birds regularly - particularly crows, but to be honest they play with her, landing at one side then flying off just above and in front :-) drives her nuts but she is pretty nutty anyway. They would both sit beside my daughter when she was playing with her rats and not bat an eyelid - its the quick movement that sets them off! The puppy - our 'hound' (PBGV) hasn't quite got into the joys of chasing yet other than my cats but she only runs after the one who runs away from her - the other one she tries to play with. However if any of them do try to chase when off lead we do shout them back rather than letting them get on with it - the only time they are slow on the recall is on the couple of occasions when they have flushed a deer - the fact they could see it for longer kept them going I think but they aren't fast enough to catch anything and Treacle will not recall from birds as she is completely obsessed. (ETA: if we see the deer first we usually distract them until its out of sight :-) )

Now cats - they are on a whole different level of predator - mine are indoor cats yet have managed to catch and kill 4 birds this year - the birds had got into their run and that was enough! When we lived in the middle of nowhere (just past the back of beyond) our cat had an extermination plan for the local rabbit population - it was horrible :-(

If in Scotland he wouldn't have the right to do that. People are legally allowed to roam over estates, and their dogs are legally allowed to chase rabbits

Can you direct me to the part of the legislation which states you have a legal right to chase rabbits in Scotland please?

Hello, glad you stuck with us :-)

You yourself said further up the thread ...

>Rabbits and rats are excluded from the Hunting Act

:-)

Discs versus e collar stim is interesting.
The thing is the e colalr stim is so mild (no pain just tingling discomfort) that its alot less bothersome to the dog than a sudden jangle of discs. I've trained with both and prefer the e collar as its nicer to the dog.

Re allowing chase of one species and not another. I have clients who want the dog to chase rabbits but not sheep. I've trained this easily. But rabbits and hare are very similar. Might be harder for the dog to know the difference. Could be done though.

Adam

> rabbits and hare are very similar. Might be harder for the dog to know the difference. Could be done though.

Could be done?! I'm sorry but I actually laughed out loud at that :-D  I wouldn't think that any amount of electrocution would help a dog tell the difference between a bunny and a hare...lol