Possibly under pressure to return "until the end of term" - after all, a supply teacher is an additional cost which has not been budgeted for - especially in the last two weeks of the summer term :(

> The teacher here had a stroke, not quite the same, but IMO he never came back the same teacher did he? He should have taken more time off, or retired from the proffession, we know strokes can be stress related. Teachers need looking after more, and that teacher must have shown signs of not being all there, why was it not acted on?

The teacher here is only 49 years old - very young to be considering retirement. In teaching your entitlement to full salary for sickness ends after 6 months when you normally go on to half salary for 6 months, then nothing. It sounds as though this poor man may have had to return to work too soon due to financial pressures if he was back 6 months after a stroke. Unfortunately you don't get cut much slack on your return to work, normally it is assumed that if you are fit to work you are fit to go back to your normal working practices. Sometimes they will offer a phased return where you can work up to full hours over a few weeks but you would not normally return as a teacher and not be expected to take classes. A lecturer at my work had a stroke at the start of the last academic year ( she was in her early 40's). She came into work to visit on a couple of occasions before her return and we all noticed how she would appear absolutely fine until she was put under any stress ( usually a manager asking her when she was coming back :-( ) and then she would become very agitated.

The situation in schools nowadays is very different from when most of us were at school, there is no respect for teachers,parents are more likely to take the part of their child regardless of how badly behaved they are and there are constant pressures to meet performance targets set by successive governments who have little idea about education. In addition, there are no sanctions that can be used against unruly children and teachers are now meant to entertain children as well as teach them, heaven forbid the little darlings should be allowed to get bored.

I have great sympathy for this teacher as this was obviously a by-product of his illness (IMHO), but also for the poor boy who found himself in the wrong place at the wrong time, because no matter how badly he was behaving, he didn't deserve to be injured in this manner in a place where he would expect to be safe.

>The best thing he coold have done was get another member of staff in to sort it

How could he get another member of staff without leaving the classroom/lab, which he cannot do if there are other children in there?

Remember that he cannot force children to leave the room - if he touches them he'll be accused of assault. This is why teachers are powerless against defiant children, and how they get pushed to the limit - and sadly beyond.

> As you have no experience of the UK schools, you can only surmise what it is like

Yes, I have never gone to school in the UK, just as many from the UK have never gone to school in Canada, or the United States. 

Canadian students are not perfect.  We do not sit there, listening word for word to what the teacher is saying, doing our homework, and then picking daisies for the old folk down the block.  Students are students. 

Teachers here, can not touch students.  They can not speak a bad word to them.  They can not do anything to a student.  Back in the day, students got the belt.  Now, that is gone.

Parents, can not touch their kids.  If they give kids a spanking, their kids could be taken away from them, and they could be charged with Child Abuse. 

I was not a perfect student, I did talk back a few times.  But I dont think I ever feared any of my teachers.  I knew my teachers wouldnt hit me, and almost kill me.  I dont think it should be about fear, but respect. 

Please dont tell me that I dont know what a horrible school can be like.  I just dont know what a horrible UK school is like.  Where students disrespect teachers, and know that nothing apart from detention or suspension can happen.  Where students bring GUNS to school, and kill other students and teachers.  Where drugs are the norm.    Even though I havent been to a UK school, it doesnt sound that much different than some of the schools over here. 

He doesn't seem to have had support from his head teacher if he or she didn't notice that this maan was walking around the school talking to himself and behaving in a way that was showing all the signs of not being able to cope.Now look what's happened,a catastrophe for the lad,his family and the teacher,who has now been charged with attempted murder.

Even though I havent been to a UK school, it doesnt sound that much different than some of the schools over here.

Don't worry Crespin, the majority and I do say majority of our schools are excellent! :-) Where children are polite and well behaved and teachers are very well liked and respected.  There are even schools on some of the 'not so nice' areas with excellent headteachers and staff and very good offsted reports outstripping some in the better areas, as with everything there are good and bad and we generally just hear of the bad. :-) And of course our Colleges and Universities are respected throughout the world, so I don't want GB/UK (whichever you call it) to be cast in a bad light because our education and schools are still top notch, even though we love to complain, but that is what we all do best. :-D

What has gone wrong in some respects is parents and parenting and taking away a teachers authority to have a good yell at some over-bearing pupils.

I think what is overlooked in this day and age and often forgotten is that we are not unlike other species in which the more alpha youngsters will try to rebel against authority and if there is a weakness a pack hunt begins, a weak male or female trying to lead without the skills for that will be attacked and brought down just the same as any other species. The more alpha adolescents need authority and authority figures to be kept in line. The softly softly approach only works with those not born with the more Alpha characteristics, we are not  different to other animals our young act more on instinct they learn as adults to repress those instincts and become more humanitarian, but children need authority or we loose control.

This is where in some schools with weak teachers (characteristically) and adolescents it can all go terribly wrong, the balance has to be right. The best schools in any area are the best because they get that balance right.

My daughter is a teacher, and she was told by a 10 year old to ''shut the F**k up you b**ch''!!
There is no respect nowadays.

> How could he get another member of staff without leaving the classroom/lab, which he cannot do if there are other children in there?

(IN most schools) There are phones in classrooms with an ability to phone internal numbers. There is also the other method of getting a sensible child to leave the classroom to get another teacher etc.

Do you think children need to fear teachers?

YES!!!!!  and add to that list parents/police,  add a little respect, and we might get back to the days when children went to school, and came out without feeling the world owes them a living and  the laws of the land doesn't apply to them.

I feel sorry for all concerned, the system has let the teacher down, which in turns lets children down.  if you cant have teachers, where children have  little respect, how do you educate them when all they say is "you cant make me or I know my rights"

If I had said that to any of my teachers...1) I would have got the cane, 2) my parents would come down on me like a ton of brick, not getting my side of it... the teachers word would have been enough!!

I realise we dont know yet what exactly happened that day. BUT I recon the boy must have been doing something to force the teacher to react this way. The way kids speak to adults never mind teachers nowadays makes me so angry.
I worked voluntarily in my sons school  for many years when you are an outsider looking in it is a real eye opener. A teacher job is very difficult  with rubbish pay. 
One I could not do as I personally would not be able to keep my hands off some of them .

I suppose in the days ahead we will all hear what a lovely boy he is !

I live in a big City quite near to a comp school when school finished at 2.30 and they all 'escape' and fill the local shops and buses its very scary as many (not all)  have no respect for the public , bus drivers , etc: I personally dont let them intimidate  me and will push them all out of the way  when I want to get past and they dont move going into a shop or onto a bus,  I walk right through the middle of a group when they are walking towards me otherwise they think you fear them.
If you ask them nicely to move so that you can enter a shop they ignore you so now I speak to them in a language they understand and it works.

Its very sad that this is how its become with the a good number of children of today a very sad state of affairs.

Yes I do think children should fear teachers we did in my day and I still remember thier names nowadays it makes me smile . First words out of my parents mouth would have been 'and what were you doing'

> My daughter is a teacher, and she was told by a 10 year old to ''shut the F**k up you b**ch''!!
> There is no respect nowadays.

I think it is disgusting that a child would know such words,let alone use them against an adult.In fact i find it quite chilling.

Being married to a teacher and working in a secondary school myself I know for a FACT that Teachers have no power any more. I do not condone what this teacher did , however I do know there is little support for teachers who are under immense stress and this teacher had just returned to work after being off for quite a long time. One report said this 'child' was taunting him , saying he was mental ......

I will wait untill all the facts are available before saying anything more but my sympathies are, at the moment, with the teacher

One report said this 'child' was taunting him , saying he was mental ......



Amazing how we get conflicting stories from different newspapers isn't it?  I read a report recently that said the boy in question was a really good boy, no trouble in the neighbourhood, helped his mum with the shopping, never heard by the neighbours to be anything but a nice polite boy, and they were shocked he could ever be involved in anything like this, so not the loud, foul mouthed thug we are surmizing him to be and that he had stepped in when the teacher went to kick a girl pupil.

I've also read that some of the class were singing 'I'm looking at the psycho in the mirror' (to the Michael Jackson theme) which kind of seems strange, if this teacher was so well liked and respected and had just returned from a stroke, don't you find it a strange thing for the pupils to do instead of being caring and concerned for a well liked teacher? It's not a normal reaction to a teacher who has been ill. I find the whole story strange, none of it makes sense. We know that this teacher had been talking to himself and acting 'like a psycho' maybe, just maybe the children were saying what the teachers should have been and he was unbalanced and should have been removed from teaching for now, that makes more sense that the children knew something was wrong with him and as children do they made it into a joke.

The only bit that screams out to me is that he is actually being charged with Attempted Murder, the prosecution have not agreed to anything less than that surely his defence should have got that down to Diminished Responsibilities which makes me think that this teacher with all the sympathy he is getting and thoughts of what may have happened, infact in reality must have no defence to his actions.

The more I read, the more I see an unbalanced man in charge of a classroom, and a boy in the wrong place at the wrong time, protecting a fellow pupil.

>surely his defence should have got that down to Diminished Responsibilities which makes me think that this teacher with all the sympathy he is getting and thoughts of what may have happened, infact in reality must have no defence to his actions.

Mental illness is a defence, and rightly so, just as physical illness is.

We know that sick, scared dgs that are in pain are likely to bite to defend themselves; we don't blame them for that and put them down. The same applies to humans who lash out in extremis. All reports of this teacher say that this terrible action was totally out of character - so we need to look for the reason for his extreme reaction.

carrington ..I dont buy newspapers so know nothing of the story on what I have heart on the news ...how much of that is correct?

If you are right then I can understand a little more but how often do we hear of teenagers being shot or stabbed and the papers say 'they we lovely and respectable when people who really know them ..know the real truth.

> I read a report recently that said the boy in question was a really good boy, no trouble in the neighbourhood, helped his mum with the shopping, never heard by the neighbours to be anything but a nice polite boy

And that's exactly what the neighbours of the Kray twins said - and probably the neighbours/friends of almost anyone charged with any crime.

A crime has been committed - and we will only know the full story when there is a trial.   In the meantime, I understand that the boy is "improving" - and I hope this improvement continues.

And that's exactly what the neighbours of the Kray twins said

Yes, two lovely boys, apparently they loved their mother though. :-D

I just feel we are all jumping on the band wagon very quickly here that the boy must have been at fault, that he must have done something for the teacher to react like this. We have millions of children in this country who are good boys and girls they fill our universities and we are quickly forgetting that, the immediate response on this forum at least is 'poor teacher' if this had happened in a private school with a strict regime and well behaved polite children would the response be the same?

I'm sorry but I feel this teacher was completely unbalanced his past good deeds and support for the man he once was are all well and good, but those people were not in that classroom with him when this happened or saw how he was talking to himself etc. previously

Do I feel sorry that the man has become so unbalanced, yes of course I do, he needs all the help he can get.

But at the moment I feel more sorry for the boy. Who at present is the innocent party unless it is shown otherwise.

I agree carrington.  We are jumping on the band wagon, there is nothing I've seen to say the boy was at fault here.  Teaching is a stressful occupation and it may be that something this boy did which may have been fairly innocent was the final straw for the teacher. 

I have seen at work in an office someone try and attack his boss because this man was on the point of a breakdown caused by problems outside the office and his boss said the wrong thing at the wrong time.  We don't know what happened here, we don't know what sort of problems the teacher had it may well be that the boy was in the wrong place at the wrong time, he may well have said something that normally would have been ignored or laughed off or resulted in a telling off but in this case in pushed the teacher over the edge.

>>And that's exactly what the neighbours of the Kray twins said

>Yes, two lovely boys, apparently they loved their mother though.

My Grandfather was a photographer who knew the Krays professionaly (as a photographer :)) and took some photos of them and said that they were very nice and polite.  He was quite supprised when he found out later what thugs they were :)

No one wins in this one, the student possibly prevoked the teacher but did not deserve a beating. The teached lost his carreer, job, reputation everything. Its just so sad. I have sympathy with the teacher yes but I have already said to my boy's if you raise your hand you are in the wrong!

Facebook has a  page  in support loads of tributes to him apparentley.