Funny the ones that seem to come under criticism are those in the top 10 say breeds , it is more likely to do with numbers out there, if you looked at it open mindedly you would probably, % ratio wise find most to be very good.

I don't think I would ever say "I wish they didnt exist " or "hate them with a passion "

Just for info in Scotland there is probably less than 10 good westie breeders,    all the ones I come across via freinds etc are excellent little dogs.  Mine are bomb proof.

Of the 50 pet ones I have trimmed I can honestly say even though most of these are from the pet market breeders, only 3 or 4 are a little bossy.. un-neutered males..   Perhaps it is where you live.

Never came across a bad border terrier ever, and Labs are definately NOT thick :-)

>Never came across a bad border terrier ever

I had a £130 vet bill due to a bad border terrier - we saw him today actually, I grabbed my boys and hid in the bushes

But saying that I really like border terriers and wouldnt judge the whole breed on this one individual.

Westies - so far i've not come across a nice one, usually pass 3 on our afternoon walk & all yap and nip at us, then we have about 5 living by us which all yap yap yap yap yap yap yap as we walk by & one never stops and is barking all the time. grrrr even on a sunday morning

B.M.D - LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE my mums boss had them and when i use to go to her house in the summer holidays i'd play in the garden with both her BMD and then we'd lie in hall way when it go too hot outside & Rum would put his paw round me. Loved them so much and would love one in the future.

Rotties - beautiful, don't know any but just adore them.

Parson/Jack Russel (not too sure on classification) - met one which was a little sw!ne, really put a block on training my dog, was always at ringcraft nipping at my dog but because he's small they (owners) found it funny.

ETA - morel of post = stupid owners letting dogs yap on sunday mornings & even stupider owners laughing at dog's naughty-ness :)

Before I joined CD I thought all Westies had serious skin and pancreatic problems and CKCS didn't live beyond 4 or 5 years - how wrong I was (thankfully!) :) 

Unfortunately our local vet practices all seem to see too many of these charming breeds with these issues, again, as a direct result of a local 'supplier'

Sorry ClaireyS, I've just had a giggle at the mental image of you jumping into a bush.

I don't have a high opinion of toy poodles it has to be said, purely because at a breed Champ show I had the dubious pleasure of seeing the leading toy poodle of the time (seriously won EVERYTHING) having a hissy fit at her owner.  Launching upwards to bite the lady's overshirt, growling and shaking side to side.  The woman was doing a baby voice to it as well, bleh!  I instantly thought what a vile little dog. 

My dogs have been attacked by labs and goldens lol but up here there are several puppy farms so goodness knows where the dogs have come from.

A friend of mine and her family got a Lab from a BYB, they felt sorry for it and knowing that it probably wasn't the best choice got him anyway(all before i knew them).
He has had a couple of operations on his hips and this all before he was 2 yrs old. He is a hyper dog anyway. He has been full of problems(health) and the family are now saying that they would never get another dog from a BYB or puppy farm after all of this and would seek help and advice for reputable breeders in the future.
Saying that thought he is a lovable dog who doesn't appear to have any dislikes at all(which is good)..

> I don't have a high opinion of toy poodles it has to be said

thats so funny coming from you lol

labs- little bit vanilla and far to well behaved
springers-"the wonderful thing about tigers..." (including the one that decided it wanted to be my friend today :))
dachunds- so so so sweet but can show attitude (which i like) one of the few small breeds i'd really consider
mastiffs- i've owned one and met a fair few and they have been without exception fabulous snuggly cuddle mountains and i will have lots and lots and lots...
gsd's- i don;t know why but i have been wary of them in the past, probably because of the dodgy pet specimins you see. however since oh really wants one i have been educating myself and am growing quite partial
rotties-sooky beasts, to bouncy for me though
staffies- gorgeous
staffie crosses- i am wary, not because of the dog but usually because of the owner, which in many cases is totally unfair i know but still its there.
toy breeds of most varieties- not so keen, i dislike yapping.

labs- little bit vanilla and far to well behaved Blimey you haven't met my lot :-)

> labs- little bit vanilla and far to well behaved Blimey you haven't met my lot

hmm.. or Ollie lol..

lol sorry, i know its probably not accurate

we saw him today actually, I grabbed my boys and hid in the bushes :-D :-D   been there and done that.. I have to say one of my young bitches just about 1 year old westies thinks everyone needs to know who she is :-)

Its the two legged untrustworthy ones on the other end of the lead we need to keep an eye on not lineage of what makes up the canine. Cant understand, you are all dog lovers what does breed matter? Dogs a dog. Stereotypes are for narrow minds which feeds ignorance.

stereotypes occur whether we want them or not. and i think if you read the thread more closely you'll see that people repeatedly reference how the impression is probably wrong but still we take an impression

we do the same with humans.. we have tall, short, thin, not so thin, blonde, redhead.. brunette.. the list is endless.. we all have our preferences.. food.. cats, dogs, humans..

We have a choice.. for most of us the breed matters.. which is why we choose a particular breed to live with.. just like you have ;-)

Its neither stereotyping, nor ignorant..

> you are all dog lovers what does breed matter?

Of course breed matters.

I chose a breed for particular traits, and characteristics.  In fact that's why I wanted a pedigree this time - I wanted to be able to determine the type of dog I'd get.  In so far as it goes to choosing a dog breed then stereotype is not a negative word.   Within my breed there are certainly lots of personality types but much of what I like is present in them all.

The OP asked whether our views about breeds have been determined by only 1 or 2 dogs.  There is no right or wrong answer just several points of view based on everyones individual experiences.  So what if one person dislikes a breed based on an unfriendly one they met once?  That's ok.  I like that we all look for different things - the dog world would be a sadder place if we all wanted the same thing...

If we were describing humans in these terms I can understand why you'd be worried about stereotypes - but dogs?! 

> Rotties - completely and utter softies in the right hands

Absolutely, all 11 of mine would sit on your lap and kiss you all night given half the chance!

Great Danes - ones i have met have all been very gentle and very loyal to their owners and family, i WILL have one....one day

Dogue de bordeaux of course, majestic and adorable, loving and loyal to last beat of their very huge heart :)

> so OTT and outgoing they just want to play and romp :-)
>

You have describe my two perfectly :)

> Its the two legged untrustworthy ones on the other end of the lead we need to keep an eye on not lineage of what makes up the canine

True in some instances Louise but not all :)  however that makes your own statement above guilty of being in the same category

>Stereotypes are for narrow minds which feeds ignorance

you're offended by :)

Some breeds, your own included, can sadly attract the 'wrong types' -  butch, macho, hard, guarding or fighting type breeds like it or not attract not only dedicated fanciers and responsible owners but also the morons who want them as status symbols or, worse still, as weapons.

Hardly surprising that unless some people are familiar already with good natured examples of such breeds that they are often feared ....

> Cant understand, you are all dog lovers what does breed matter?

It matters greatly - size, temperament, coat type, exercise requirements, food bills etc all play a part in folks determining what their ideal family companion is.  Breed matters greatly and the more carefully and reputably bred the dog the more easy it is to determine that what we hoped we'd get we actually do!

I dont mean by the choice of dog to own 'what does breed matter' i meant by disliking of a breed just because of its breed. Mainly because of the scumbag staffie owners, lack of brain cells and responsilibity to control and train thier dog, is the reason to dislike it. Sorry to use the stafford in the example, but due to its relitively small size, reduced feeding cost and they are not as strong say as my breed they seem to be the most popular with these types.

I agree they are attracted to the wrong types, but anyone who knows my lot love them and they do the breed proud. Couldnt have every tom dick and harry having them. I wouldnt have to say dogue de bordeaux 3 times over and then french mastiff ;-)

> i meant by disliking of a breed just because of its breed

but breeds represented by their owners as anything other than friendly and well under control are what causes those not knowing them well to form opinions :)  For example nothing like all toy breeds by any means are spoilt and nippy, but meet enough of them that are and the group as a whole can get a reputation for being snappy at best but more probably aggressive.

I can't seem to go anywhere these days but I'm falling over DDB, locally and much further afield.  If I was to form an opinion based on the majority of those I've seen it would be slobbery dog, comes in a multitude of shapes, sizes and almost always lame on queen ann legs, incredibly fearful of noise, traffic, people - life in general ..... hardly what the standard calls for is it :(

It's not necessarily all about the wrong people owning some breeds - but more about the wrong stock being bred by the wrong breeders

I agree totally, ther is not a constant type in this breed. dont know what area you live in but it sounds like you have a byb in the mist. Totally against the breed standard apart from the slobber and totally opposite to mine as well. But thats down to me mostly for my hard work in socialising. and buying from responsible sources

I can only go on the dogs I now locally:

Staffies - very dog aggressive, badly trained and walked by idiots
Labradors - vary in type from whippet to mastiff, temperaments vary from excellent to aggressive
Springers - like Labs they all vary in size/temperament
Mini Schnauzers - stubborn and not great at recall, but great with dogs and people (I own 2, but there are loads near me)
Golden Retreivers - nice, great temperament, dim and crazy
Cocker Spaniels - fun and intelligent
Beagles - good temperaments but not very obedient
Bassets - noisy and not very friendly
Cavaliers - all good tempered, but vary in size from tiny to Cocker size
GSD - great dogs, all the ones I have seen have good temperaments and are well trained - and I want a sable one!!

Hi Louise,

As I stated, this is not only local to me - I watched some at a champ show a short while ago and the variation in type and conformation was extremely evident and would be even to a completely untrained eye with several temperaments being very weak - none of which bodes well for a breed which seems to have taken off so quickly in popularity.....

> I can't seem to go anywhere these days but I'm falling over DDB, locally and much further afield.  If I was to form an opinion based on the majority of those I've seen it would be slobbery dog, comes in a multitude of shapes, sizes and almost always lame on queen ann legs, incredibly fearful of noise, traffic, people - life in general ..... hardly what the standard calls for is it :(
>

And a few years ago it was Shar Pei like that and also Neo's.

It's not wrong per se that anyone forms a lasting impression of a specific breed based on one or two encounters.   I'm really surprised, for example, that a number of people have had negative experiences with Westies.    Westies are probably the most common breed in my area.   One male did run up to me and immediately lifted his leg to wee on mine ... but fortunately I noticed first. :-)    That is the sum of negative experiences because every Westie I've encountered has been people and dog friendly. 

The shame is that if someone wants a small, spirited dog if they have had a negative experience or two with Westies they will rule them out as an option.  When as some people mentioned, the fact is that the nasty Westies may be traced back to a puppy farm or BYB .. who is perhaps also churning out other poor examples (in health and temperament) of popular breeds.

I know this is going to sound a bit strange but I genuinely believe westies have very few issues , skin being really the only one that crops up "occasionally" I can use this word confidently as I have honest never had a westie that had itchy or bad skin because of this my vet rarely sees my dogs over the years except for puppy vaccines ,  the odd premate test, the odd scan.   

What westies my vet will see coming through his practise is the ones with problems.   My vet called me just a couple days ago to ask if he could give my number to someone looking for a puppy, he said the lady was looking for 1 of 4 breeds and he said of the 4 to buy a westie.  I am sure one mentioned was the CKCS but I cant remember the other two.

The Westie trust foundation in the US are really working hard on having tests for various skin disorders , I can't wait for the day it is available so that pet buyers will know to ask for results rather than buy from these backyard breeders who just don't care what they are breeding from.

A few other breeds i have come across.

Never in my mind would i of ever thought i would like the Greyhound or the Wolfhound.
A good friend of mine has both and they are both such lovely breeds and can't say a bad word about either breed. The Wolfie is a very docile gentle breed and the greyhound(her pup) is mad a hatter but still very gentle.
Very loving and cause much of a fuss either.

> I know this is going to sound a bit strange but I genuinely believe westies have very few issues

I completely agree Blue - I thought I'd been clearer in mentioning those local to me are all puppy farm produced and that's why I was under the mistaken impression that the breed was generally an unhealthy one whereas it's not! 

I hope I didn't offend :(

I hope I didn't offend Oh no never :-)  I knew exactly what you meant honestly.  

The poor wee white middens are generally tarred with the same brush by the majority of people sadly from all areas, I see it even on here month in month out and this is an avenue for dog people.

Thankfully I have not personcame across it "yet" BUT I don't stick my head in the sand and would immeditately nip it in the bud and that is what we need everyone to do.  Like so many other breeds.

I remember my vet saying to me the little whippet has very few health problems but don't seem to be that popular even though the show entries are fantastic.