Would you rather that the reader saw only all the positives in this and decided that they too should not hesitate to buy a puppy in a similar position?

This is a very important point because people who Google WILL find results from CD. Generally speaking, unless you can arrange for somebody to help out with a young pup (and I have been through this myself many years ago, when I got a pup and was working part time -I got my grandfather to come in every day), it is always better for people who work to get an adult dog that is already used to being on its own. (Not just going to a rescue and picking any dog as they may get one with separation anxiety, some background info will be needed.) Retired Greyhounds are often recommended in these cases.

Isabel

Acceptable to who? Acceptable to the dog

Yes it is.  It is the difference between no human company and a little human company.  Does it matter if its the owner or a neighbour or a friend? The point is the owner is coming home after 3 hours to allow the dog out and to give him some attention. As i have said it is not great when the pup is so young but i see no problem in a dog that is a few months old. Dogs do not need to have someone with them 24-7. Infact, it is good for a dog to have time to itself and does them no harm at all.

not really, we train them to go to bed and sleep at night, in the day they want company and action and human contact :) I don't agree with leaving a small puppy like that but she has the puppy now so folk are really just doing their best to advise - I think its been a very constructive thread :)

> what is supposed to happen at night, when people need to sleep?

Dogs have a body clock that encourages them to sleep during the night hours the same as humans.  They will also have had the benefit of company, socialisation and activity during the day.

Mahonc you've echoed my thoughts. :-)

If a dog can't be left for 3 hours - what is supposed to happen at night, when people need to sleep?  Does this mean that dog owners can only sleep in short sessions?

Puppies as young as 8-9 weeks DO need to be let out at night. But there is a huge difference between night time when dogs know instinctively it is night and they should sleep, and day time when they want to be doing things.  My dogs wake up when the sun goes up and it stops being dark. Being alone day AND night doubles the time as well.

> this happens in so many threads

Which may just be read by others contemplating buying a boxer puppy to leave at home to housetrain it's self.
Do you really think it would be such a great idea to make it all seem easy?

We will probably not hear if this ends badly so for now, making it seem like there are consequences in this world, may not be a bad thing.

May I ask mahonc...knowing what you know, would you have sold her a puppy? Or put another way, if you'd turned her down would you be happy to put all her problems right?

im not saying your wrong isabel, but everyone having a go saying what a mistake she has made wont help. and im sure asking this neighbour was something on her mind anyway.
sometimes i do feel the o.p gets a right rough deal when just asking for genuine help.

>> "a boxer is a large lump of moving muscle".
> ha ha ha ha bless

double that!
my boy is certainly one big muscle who doesnt look when he moves! he walked into a lampost the other day too busy looking some where else ha ha!

All i can say is i work full time & its not easy, i put alot time & effort into the walks, we walk, to drain his physical energy, & when we get to the place we're walking to we play games to drain his mental energy, then we walk back. I do this 3 times a day before & after work & at lunch. Its wonderful in the summer time however in the winter its a real drag but i HAVE to do it & i will continue to do it but it does take commitment & only the right person can work full time, with a dog and make it work.

> Acceptable to who? Acceptable to the dog

Well that is what we are disputing.

>> Yes it is.  It is the difference between no human company and a little human company.  Does it matter if its the owner or a neighbour or a friend?

No. I thought you meant in addition to the owner coming home at lunch time.

>Dogs do not need to have someone with them 24-7. Infact, it is good for a dog to have time to itself and does them no harm at all.

I agree.  It is the degree I think we would not agree on.

One thing I would like to mention is training your son with the pup no exciting rough play fighting etc. At the moment while puppy is little yes your son will come home to a bored pup probably in the kitchen with lots of Pooh's & pee everywhere so will not want to full on play with him! but would your son be ok with cleaning this up? I worry more about when your pup is a large pup in 6 to 8 months time he will be very excited to see someone after a long day alone he will be jumping off the walls with excitement. Teaching your son to be calm & reserved will be the key to a happy upbringing.
Only mentioning this due to recently taking on a new dog myself I have had a few up and downs with this settling in period but thankfully after 7 months think I'm over the worst. My son is 15 and very good with taking care of them while like yourself have to work so leaving them up to there own devices. It is a worry when things can go wrong when an adult is not around. Maybe a friend or relative could be persuaded to be an emergency contact if anything does go haywire so your son has someone to call on if need be?   With only a minor thing happening children can fret terrible about what Mum is going to say. For Instance the pup running into your lounge covered in dirt or worse  leaping onto sofa's these things do and will happen when you are not at home so make sure your child knows how to deal with any situation rather than panicking  after the incident .:-)
best of luck with you new family member.

Yes am IMO it is acceptable to the dog, perhaps not to the pup, but it is only for a few weeks. As the OP said their neighbour may be willing to come in to let the pup out. As a mature pup id be concerned that it COULDNT be left for a few hours alone.
Yes its not easy having a dog and working but hey ho, thats life we get on with it

>Dogs do not need to have someone with them 24-7. Infact, it is good for a dog to have time to itself and does them no harm at all.

DOGS, yes. PUPPIES, no. Just like you can leave an older child alone in their room to play, or when old enough when you go out but would never leave a baby or toddler unsupervised unless they were asleep -and even then you would not leave the house.

Do you keep a background noise on so he does not feel alone? Mine were worse with the quiet with the radio they always settled.

I think we always have to take into consideration in answering posts on the forum as to the fact that lots of people are looking to the forum for advice before getting a dog and to show the pitfalls as well as the good is imperative. I hope the OP has not been too upset, but the fact remains that it is not the best course aof action to have a dog and work full time. Yes, for many it can work, the right breed, the hard work, the preperation etc needs to be done and I think we have (On the whole) given this information, albeit a little late for the OP. We do need to make people aware of how hard it can be to do right. Hopefully the OP will take all the good advice on board and arrange her shedule to give the best outcome. But at least someone reading this and thinking of venturing into dog/work senario will think first about how to do it and we may just help to keep some dogs out of rescue.
Aileen

>May I ask mahonc...knowing what you know, would you have sold her a puppy

truthfully no i most definately would not have, but the breeder did and she has the pup now so all she can do is try the best for it.
and i have to say if anyone had the right to tell her she has made her a mistake with it being your breed i would have said it was you.
HOWEVER no matter what we say she has the pup and she is asking for advice rather than just leaving it and not bothering.

all i am saying is that sometimes on here the advice is good but said in the wrong way, it should be thought out better i feel. i have been reprimanded for saying words that people consider to be blaspheming and to me that is something i say all day every day, and i tied to curb it as it upset people. but the way certain advice is put forward is sometimes harsh and abrasive and makes people feel worse.

Poeple reading this and considering buying a puppy will have more information as to the pro's and con's than most.  They will see how much it is frowned upon, they will have spotted the very possible pitfalls, and they will have spotted that, for some, it works - at least they will have more information to make an informed decision.

> Poeple reading this and considering buying a puppy will have more information as to the pro's and con's than most.  They will see how much it is frowned upon, they will have spotted the very possible pitfalls, and they will have spotted that, for some, it works - at least they will have more information to make an informed decision.

Luckily we didn't all say.....no problems ..done it several times.

> Yes am IMO it is acceptable to the dog

And yet for sooooo many breeders it is not.  I wonder why?

littlemissdrago, whilst I agree it is not ideal to have a puppy and work full time it can work out.

Nine years ago my ex turned up one Saturday afternoon with a seven week old GSD pup he had bought after he went to view the litter with a friend. I was furious but he won my kids round with her cute factor but we were both back at work full time on the Monday :-O

We had to ask friends and family to pop in during the day to feed her and let her out but she was fine (I never used a crate)

As she got older she just got used of the routine and as long as she got an hours exercise every morning before we left I never had any problems.

We have since got another dog and hope to get a pup soon. My circumstances are different now. I work from home some days and my kids are home at lunch and again at 3.30 but I don't regret my decision to keep Sacha.    

 

> i tied to curb it as it upset people. but the way certain advice is put forward is sometimes harsh and abrasive and makes people feel worse.

Very difficult when I focus on the puppy not just the situation.

> Very difficult when I focus on the puppy not just the situation

i know but the good thing is she asked for help. again you of all people i can understand being upset as its your breed but lets be constructive.

> but lets be constructive.

The advise and comments may not always be welcome but they are constructive.  If not all directly to this poster having already found herself in the position she has but to the many other reading it.

But is it constructive in the way it is said. I know its hard but tone is as important as content. I for one have been upset at the way ive been spoken to on more than one occasion on this forum, as have others. Some so much that they leave the board for a while to cool off.
The OP needs advice not criticism

> And yet for sooooo many breeders it is not.  I wonder why?

because people have different opinions and experiences.

This pup is going to be left from 9am - 4pm with half an hours lunch break, every day.  OP asked for help to make this easier for the pup, and herself because she is finding her way of preparing him for this difficult.
She has been advised by the vast majority of members that this is not enough attention for such a young pup and that more human intervention is needed.  She has now decided to ask a neighbour for help.
Sounds constructive to me? :)

Someone working shows financial stability, someone who doesnt work can spend more time at home with the dog....which is better??  Both are important and in this world not many have money without having to do some kind of work. I would imagine that the majority of dog owners are working people, few are lucky enough to not need to work.

Some so much that they leave the board for a while to cool off.
Others leave the board because they find some of the irresponsible advice that is sometimes given difficult to accept.  :)

The world and this board consists of a variety of people and their personal styles. :)

> Dogs do not need to have someone with them 24-7. Infact, it is good for a dog to have time to itself and does them no harm at all.

My dog would not choose to be on his own, I can leave him for a few hours while I go shopping with no problems (as a young pup I would get family members to 'baby sit if I were to be gone for more than about an hour & half), but he wouldn't choose to be on his own. Some breeds really do crave human company, my sisters Boxer is another, that allthough can be left without it causing her stress/destructiveness, would not actually choose to be on her own. When my sisters Boxer pup was young, if my sister would be out for more than half an hour, she would bring the pup to me to 'baby sit' (or, should that be to pull my washing of the line and enjoy me chasing her to get it back!!).

> I for one have been upset at the way ive been spoken to on more than one occasion on this forum, as have others. Some so much that they leave the board for a while to cool off.
>

me for one!

i agree with freds mum, some people come here asking questions and are rather shouted down. absolutely give the information about it for potential future readers but attacking people just creates anger and upset. breeders and exhibitors get this awful reputation for being snobby and mean (i know its not usually true) but its not helped by some of the attitudes people receive. shes trying to make the best of a not perfect situation, we're all concerned for the pup but being upset won't help him, offering advice might.

> few are lucky enough to not need to work.

Or some of us work from home so can offer the 'financial stability' and full-time companionship to a puppy.

> But is it constructive in the way it is said.

I haven't seen anything said to this poster in an unpleasant way.  Truths have been told such as they would not have sold a puppy to this situation but I cannot see that that is being rude to the poster, possibly the breeder who let her have one, but not the poster.  Other than that she has been advised that the plans she has in place are likely to be challenging if not unworkable.  Given the title of this thread I think the worst that could be said is we are stating the obvious.

> My dog would not choose to be on his own, I can leave him for a few hours while I go shopping with no problems (as a young pup I would get family members to 'baby sit if I were to be gone for more than about an hour & half), but he wouldn't choose to be on his own. Some breeds really do crave human company, my sisters Boxer is another, that allthough can be left without it causing her stress/destructiveness, would not actually choose to be on her own. When my sisters Boxer pup was young, if my sister would be out for more than half an hour, she would bring the pup to me to 'baby sit' (or, should that be to pull my washing of the line and enjoy me chasing her to get it back!!).

which is why (for potential readers out there!) perhaps an older pup or dog whos habits are somewhat known might have suited this situation better. even breed is not always an indicator in this (though it can help)- mastiff lover and i have very similar breeds who generally want people all the time! but my boy likes his alone time- even if we have been out for a while in the day after he's spent time with us he will still take himself to another room for some quiet time.

> When my sisters Boxer pup was young, if my sister would be out for more than half an hour, she would bring the pup to me to 'baby sit' (or, should that be to pull my washing of the line and enjoy me chasing her to get it back!!).

something like this might be the best solution for the op.

>> And yet for sooooo many breeders it is not.  I wonder why?
> because people have different opinions and experiences.

Exactly :-)

Great if you can mastifflover but not many are not able to, or want to. I for one wouldnt be able tio do my job from home and even if i could i dont think id want to. I like keeping work at work and closing the door on it to come home to my other life at home. Horses for courses though, waht suits one doesnt always suit another :-)

freds mum was that ment for me? (pssst, i was backing you up! :))

eta, in our case OH and i work differing shifts so i leave for work in the afternoon and liams back by tea time.

I would imagine that the majority of dog owners are working people,

Most dog owners I know don't work. Or just the husband works, or they work part time only. Hand on heart I don't think I know a single dog owner, in real life, that works full time. I've sold kittens to plenty of full time workers who say they'd love a dog but they can't as they work.

I haven't seen anything said to this poster in an unpleasant way.

Me neither.

> Someone working shows financial stability, someone who doesnt work can spend more time at home with the dog....which is better??

The latter for me.

> Both are important and in this world not many have money without having to do some kind of work.

There are still lots of people, particularly mature people, who work just a few hours or one partner not at all.  Lots of people working from home these days too.

No wasnt for you Astarte :-)

MarianneB, i am astounded. All dog owners i know work :-)  How strange that we both experiance different extremes :-)

In 25 years I've never sold a puppy to anyone where the pup would be left fulltime, nor would I.  IMO it's not in the dogs' best interest.  It might be what the family want but my consideration is always for the dog first.  :)

Ok Isabel, so hypothetically then, if you were a breeder you would happily give someone one of your pups if they didnt work but ticked all the other boxes? I dont breed but would seriously worry how someone could afford the cost of the pup, the innoculations, the food, the insurance, the medical expense, the toys etc etc etc :-) if they had no income.

> MarianneB, i am astounded. All dog owners i know work :-) How strange that we both experiance different extremes

I don't know any either.  The closest I know is a couple who are both out all day 3 days a week but do come home for lunch.  They chose an adult rescue dog.

> Ok Isabel, so hypothetically then, if you were a breeder you would happily give someone one of your pups if they didnt work but ticked all the other boxes?

I will take part time workers providing the hours are not too long.

>I dont breed but would seriously worry how someone could afford the cost of the pup, the innoculations, the food, the insurance, the medical expense, the toys etc etc etc :-) if they had no income.

It depends on the income that the other partner is earning surely.  I have never worked full time since the day I married 25 years ago.  Infact I did not work at all for the first three years but got a bit bored. 

>>> And yet for sooooo many breeders it is not.  I wonder why?
>> because people have different opinions and experiences.
> Exactly :-)

by which i ment that some people manage fine. i also think this is very young for this pup to be left alone but i think we need to get passed that and offer, as freds mum says, constructive help now.

> I don't know any either.  The closest I know is a couple who are both out all day 3 days a week but do come home for lunch.  They chose an adult rescue dog

you might not know them face to face but you know several on here who manage fine

(granted again adult dogs, thats why i mentioned for other readers an adult might be better)

>granted again adult dogs, thats why i mentioned for other readers an adult might be better

Exactly :-)

Thats not what i asked Isabel - i said if someone didnt work. The OP is only going to be working maybe 30 hours a week which to me is part time not full time

> all i am saying is that sometimes on here the advice is good but said in the wrong way, it should be thought out better i feel. i have been reprimanded for saying words that people consider to be blaspheming and to me that is something i say all day every day, and i tied to curb it as it upset people. but the way certain advice is put forward is sometimes harsh and abrasive and makes people feel worse.

Which is why this forum has many members that don't ask questions !

The OP is only going to be working maybe 30 hours a week which to me is part time not full time

Officially 30 hours is classified as fulltime with the Job centre etc.