Well, not a brilliant programme, but I suppose any publicity that teaches people not to buy from scrubby properties with a wide variety of breeds is a start, however small. I'm sure the issue of docked breeds coming in from Ireland is a huge one too, so drawing attention to that is useful.

The advice about only buying vaccinated puppies is yet another blow for responsible dog breeders who want their puppies homed at the optimum time to settle in to a new home.

I think I'm catching pessimism from my 'glass half empty' husband LOL. I'm getting very down about the future of dog breeding and indeed dog ownership in the UK.

M.

As an aside, isn't iPlayer fabulous.

Whilst I agree with many of the comments on here about the way in which the programme was presented (and yes - dog on back of motorbike complete with goggles, completely awful!) - I have to think it's good that the message is being put across finally that you shouldn't buy a dog from a pet shop and shouldn't buy a dog without seeing its mum. This programme was on mainstream TV and not an all-Welsh channel - so thats a good starting point too. The "Byd-Ar-Bedwar" or whatever its called was much better in my opinion and hopefully these will be shown on mainstream television too.

I've been involved in puppy farm research and educating the public for a long time, and whilst I do agree that education is extremely important, what was said in another post is an extremely valid point - there will always be the impluse buyers who decide they want a dog NOW and wouldn't pass a decent breeder's criteria for being a good owner - these are the kind of people that the puppy farmers and pet shops rely on.

This show featured pups bought in from Ireland - but I felt that some mention should have been made of pups from Wales that are sold in these establishments too. I also feel that they were wrong in only suggesting that a dog should be sought at a rescue centre and not from a good breeder. We are hoping to get a new pup soon and she won't be vaccinated when we get her - just because a pup isn't vaccinated doesn't mean its from an awful breeder.

I knew this particular pet shop where the bought the Cocker was bad, but a real eye opener to see it was 'registered' with the UKPDRC - indeed as MM pointed out, this registry has not been in operation for some time. They were connected to a large pet shop in the North West which went out of business some time ago, I believe due to the fact that the local council received so many complaints about the health of the pups sold there.

I thought the show had a very light hearted air to it. I agree, they could have easily made show that focused on the bad side of dog breeding and then the good side. They totally missed a trick.

I was also very concerned that the BBC in the guise of Rogue Traders were buying sick puppies. I know this was to illustrate the poor way in which the dogs were bred, but it is not like getting your windows replaced badly by a cowboy builder.

Money was paid so the bad breeders got what they set out for, cash. If they got a bit of bad publicity they will just change their name or their kennel name and carry on regardless.

I feel that there is always going to be a market for Puppy Farmers because some people want a dog but their lifestyle doesn't fit what rescue centres or good breeders rightly say is unsuitable for keeping a dog. Or those who just decided at the drop of a hat to go out and get a puppy, like you'd nip out for a loaf of bread.

It was all just a little hypocritical, particularly with recent BBC events still fresh in my mind.

> For a long time now I have been putting forward the suggestion that the KC have an advertising campaign on TV to promote the best way to buy a puppy.  This was boo-hoo'd by CK saying that they already promote responsible ownership etc.,  I agree, they do promote responsible ownership - but that's after the puppy has been bought from "who knows where".
>

Excellent idea! And if the KC were paying ITV and other independant channels would be more than happy to take their money and give us a place to show the public that good breeders do exist. Perhaps your suggestion should be taken up by us all, maybe we should all take a few minutes to speak to the KC at Crufts? Put it in writing that we would like the KC to pull it's collective fingers out on this one?

Is TV advertising not hugely expensive though?
A little Googling has shown it is still about £5 per thousand adult viewers for 30 seconds even in this economic climate.  I think they would be better utilising the web more.

Im with you Lillymc

I have had this discussion before and when my vet has given the first vacc to a puppy before it leaves they are very sceptical that the next vet will give a similar vaccine or may even vaccintate all over again, which I am guessing wont be very good for the pup.

The alternative is the pup stay until 10 weeks putting a lot more onous on the breeder to train the puppy and giving the puppy less time to bond with its new owner.

Im afraid this will put me off breeding my larger breed now and I am unlikely to breed another small breed either.  The worry of what to expect from scaremongering is just too much.

I watched this also and was very disappointed by the end of it. It seemed hurried and didn't dig very deeply. Yes  some people now know not to go to these two places for puppies but there will be many that didn't see the show and while they are still allowed to sell puppies, people will buy them!
Places like these need infiltrating by the council or RSPCA and lots of evidence finding but it doesn't look like it's gonna happen. I too was saddened by it and feel for those poor bitches and puppies.

The one good thing they did was to stress that buyeres should always see the puppies with their mother - perhaps a slogan like "I no see Mummy, you no see money" might help the message stick.

> Is TV advertising not hugely expensive though?
> A little Googling has shown it is still about £5 per thousand adult viewers for 30 seconds even in this economic climate. I think they would be better utilising the web more.

Well they gave £48,000 to the RSPCA...... Perhaps that money might have bought one advert and surely some of the dog food companies could have helped out too, they all earn enough from us.

I just feel that the KC could be doing a lot more than they do at the moment to educate people before they buy a puppy.  The RSPCA advertises, as do lots of other dog charities, so why not the KC?  At least this would be a starting point from which to educate!  You can't stop people buying what they want to buy, at the end of the day its up to them, but if they have all the information, at least you've done your bit!!  THe KC has been hit hard by PDE but if they started to be proactive, rather than reactive, then public opinion would certainly start to sway in their favour.  

Kingdom

Think Toolz husband is right unfortunately, that and the fact that many puppy farms accept credit cards and no vetting procedure to go through. I turned a friend of a friend couple down for one of my litter as they worked full time and had very busy social lives - told them I thought their lifestyle at that time wasn't right for a puppy. Found out 3 weeks later went and got a Samoyed puppy from one of these places in Manchester. 15 months later the dog is being rehomed to 'good home' as 'don't have time to give him the attention he deserves' more like 'never had time to give him the attention he deserved' :-(.
Angela

havn't had time to read the whole thread but watched the prog- they didnt seem to give much good advise as to where you should buy a pup, they just said see it with mum! i thought they should have at least explained how to find a reputable breeder! i suppose the poor babes who died of parvo did so cos they were taken off mum too early and mum prob wasnt vaccinated so had no natural immunity for pups? they should have said that also i think

>This programme was poor in many ways, poor because it did not explain what to ask a breeder before purchasing the puppy, poor because they said the DLR was closed in 2002 which we all know it is not, (I have a DLR registered cav coming to eye testing on Tuesday night, and when it is bred from the owner informs me it will have it's pups registered with DLR)

Received:

" Please remove the false information from your forum (below) in the link that your member/ user 'polly' added.
The rogue Traders BBC Programme never mentioned DLR or DLRC once,what they did mention was the UK Pedigree pets club which is nothing to do with us whatsoever.

Without Prejudice
D A WInters
Co Director
Dog Lovers Club "

The one in Bedford (Luton) is still advertising and advertising so called "Special Imports" *sigh* hope no one gets fooled

couldnt agree more about dog/bike it made me shudder to think of consequences in the event of bike "going over" not to mention affects on dogs eyes if trip of any length, cant remember, is it a B.B.C. programme ? and if so how does it relate to there stated concerns about welfare of dogs,etc.
It was a pity programme devoted so much time to "trying to make" (unsuccesfully) presenters appear witty and humorous therefore less time for issues to be explored
Stan

>not to mention affects on dogs eyes if trip of any length,

The dog was wearing goggles so its eyes would have been fine.

It's not really much different to the chap I saw on his motorbike with his terrier in his backpack, head poking out looking around.

But surely as most reputable breeders wouldnt let there pups go till  at least aprox eight weeks, pups should have recieved at least there first innoculations
from 7/8 weeks before they leave breeders premises
Stan

Also suprised at failure of RSPCA to find evidence of Parvo when at least two carriers known to have been on premises,
didn't seem kind of chap to do regular deep cleans, makes you wonder how hard they looked/tested for ANY contagious diseases.
Stan

If the breeder's vet gives a particular make of vaccine and the buyer's vet uses another brand then the pup would have to restart the course, so unless the pup is staying with the breeder until 10+ weeks when it's had the full course it's better not to have any at all.

Most breeders don't because it often leads to difficulties in continuing the course with a different vet.  It is hardly necessary with hobby breeders where puppies are generally raised in a fairly protected environment and late weaning.  Puppies from kennel environments are probably the ones to benefit from an early start to cover.

They close them they lose the income from the licence fee and any other charges like business rates etc.
I would say given ages at which pups go to new home they should have recieved (at least) there first jab

If their dam has good immunity and she's been allowed to maintain contact with her litter (as you'd expect from a good breeder) in a clean environment then there's no benefit to the pups for early vaccination. Pups shouldn't be homed within 7 days of their first vaccination.

Re: rescues
we have to be carefull Isabel we are finding things to agree about, a few years ago went with friend to buy surplus breezeblocks from a horse sanctuary/rescue kennel
being me "I HAD" to have a look round the dogs little lurcher bitch caught my eye so went in to ask about rehoming her, I had noticed that she had lost a lot of hair from her back legs, had bald patches plus some sores when I asked what treatment she was recieving they werent even aware of the problem/condition despite fact she had been there for almost a fortnight, that definitely decided me that she was coming home then and there, quick trip to vet, some cream and condition cured never to return,
While in the main most rescues are excellent, there are a few places who are no more than dog traders who tag rescue onto there name to make them appear a lot better than the reality of there operations.
Stan Berry

When I bought my last pup and took it along with vacination card for its 1st health check vet was able to establish what vaccine had been given and ensure she had same type
ordered in for 2nd jabs to be done at 12 weeks old, providing you let vet know beforehand continuing course with same product should not present any problems
Stan

Sorry jeangenie fact that other people do it doesnt mean it should be done, especially by someone beating a very large drum about dog welfare
Stan

>providing you let vet know beforehand continuing course with same product should not present any problems

And providing you're prepared to pay for a whole box of vaccines if they have to order it in specially.

My vet didnt appear to have that problem, further , on an other occassion obtained same vaccine as used for an overdue booster for an older dog I rehomed
perhaps I am just lucky with having vet that I  have and she did have to order them in perhaps she has good  working relationship with supplier and could order as required
Stan

Where I live the vets will not vaccinate until the pup reaches 10 to 12 weeks of age.

Nor will ours, Polly.

It is important that the  new owner takes their pup to their own vet for a check up, even if the breeder's vet has checked the pups.    They can then arrange the full course to be done, and it is considerably more likely to be effective between 10 and 12 weeks than it is earlier.

Jo

I an many breeders let Pups go to homes between 7 and 8 weeks (most families like to collect at the weekend), when my breed are more than ready.

I along with many would not send a part vaccinated pup away from me.

If they are going to be here past 10 weeks then they get the full course, if they leave before 10 weeks then they won't have any vaccinations.

If a pup has had first vaccination then a new owner will have to wait for it to have had it's second.

I do not want my pups to have more jabs than they need which commonly happens as the new vet may use different vaccines to mine.

My own pups I prefer not to start vaccinating until 10 weeks as my girls will be suckling their pups to 8 weeks or sometimes longer.

Hi Jo,
      My sales agreement recommends and gives 3 days for new owner to have pup checked by vet of there choice
and a further 4 days (1 week in total for collection/return) to return pup in event of a medically unsatisfactory check up
at this time they can arrange dates for 2nd jabs to be done, giving vet time to ensure they have same vaccine to hand
None of previous purchasers of pups all of whom I stay in contact with or am contactable by them if required have indicated
any problems with pups having had 1st vacinations (at least) prior to going to new homes, it also gives me the assurance
that in event of a pup having any adverse reaction to jabs I am on hand to to ensure it recieves whatever care it requires
to get over the reaction
Stan Berry