She WAS given advice...to the the poor bitch BACK to the Vet!

I did not in any way, insult you.  I gave you an answer based on my knowledge of the breed.  When you stated that your bitch was 6.6lbs when weighed by your veterinarian, I can assure you that when I mentioned a 6lbs breeding bitch, I did not mean weight when pregnant.  I use girls that weigh 6lbs before they are ever mated.  I tried to explain the reasons that your 4lbs girl was going to have problems.  All my advice was meant to be helpful.  I do feel that I have whelped enough (breed edited) bitches to give you sound advice.  And not many vets will breed them to have had the experience.

>> i have always been a cat owner and she didnt show the immediate signs of heat
>

I missed that little gem.

> LouiseDDB you will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar -and I can remember YOU being the person saying everyone was having a go at you when your breeding practices were questioned. The OP has made a big mistake, but they're not standing up and trying to say they did right, so why not try to educate instead of blaming.

That is the trouble with being unkind; people learn by example.

Well, Trish, you have to forgive some people, the amount of times we get asked the same question over and over again...maybe if they looked through the breeding section they would probably find all the help there that they need. In fact if they did their research in the first place, well, they wouldn't need us would they? I've spent many years learning about my breed and many more years until I bred a litter...I still needed a mentor and friends! But, like most people they cannot be bothered going through it all and decide they want to post a question, for a quick answer, but unfortunately they sometimes get more than they bargained for! I'm sure there are many people on here who have been helped, by sound good advice and blow it all, we're not Saints ya know!?

Well in my first post i called her what she was which is irresponsible, you cant really get the meaning of that word without using it, and medicine doesnt always taste nice. I named the reasons why and that was rude apparantly. Then gave her advice to abort the pups, which would have stoped the risk of her giving birth at such a size. She was given advice but she cannot expect sweetness and light when she is endangering the life of our beloved species.

>......where will she go now

She has been seeing the vet, who is obviously alert to the dangers of breeding from such a tiny dog, so she is best continuing with their advise as none of us have the benefit of actually seeing the little creature.

Oh hun it wasn't your post that cinged my nose hairs! Your post was helpful! Yes i made a huuuge mistake, Yes my dog is healthy, Yes i have taken her to the vet several times, Yes she is spotting, and Yes i have read the forum on breeding, and i have read about discharge, and whelping. But all cases are different, and i was looking for (breed name edited) breeders experience. I feel i am a very overprotective momma, because my dog spotted about a centimeter and i jumped online to see the cause!

> I named the reasons why and that was rude apparantly.

There's ways & means of getting your point across which doesn't make you seem rude.   

Those in glass houses..............

> That is the trouble with being unkind; people learn by example.

A very laudable principle Misty but aren't the advisors not just giving the OP a 'Get out of Jail' card......into the land where there are no consequences to ones actions?
Where everyone sorts out your mess; leaving you free to do it all over again.

Jean, I don't think it was you Hun x

where will she go now or do you not care about this poor dogs situation?

Hopefully her Vet, as she has been advised.  Unfortuately, helping these situations just encourages the owner and perpetuates the poor bitch's situation - just like buying puppies from puppy farmers or backyard breeders. :(

What by saying she has bred her too young and she should have had her spayed already or that she should have kept them apart? I dont see anything rude about that, and yes exactly she should face consequences.

Independant1

If this is a serious post and your bitch in pup.I would respectfully suggest that you take her to your local vets and let them check her over .a discharge at 6 weeks could be signs or reabsorbtion/abortion or could just be normal vaginal discharge and nothing to worry about but without a full examination it is not appropriate to comment .Take her to the vets asap

I would seek advice from people experienced in your breed (breed club) regarding the rearing of the puppies and how to recognise the signs of labour) when/if c section will be needed.

Puppies in this breed are very delicate, chill easily and hypoglycemia is common.  they should not be homed until they are 12 weeks old.

She is getting the dog speyed next so she wont do it again so the point was made and the advice was taken. I appreciate the frustration totally but its a bit like saying you wouldnt rescue a dog cause you leave battersea full of them, you wont make a difference. This forum can make a difference to single dogs where someone has had the sense to ask rather than ignore.

If it is a return tripper with the same situation, go for your life, attack attack attack!!!

Will do, and that was my full intention, but my vet does not accept walk-ins so i have to wait to take her in until tomorrow. That is why i checked this site, looking for information, and some suggestions and/or experience for what to expect when expecting (breed edited) pups. My first post i stated that i had heard chihuahuas could die, i wasnt suggesting my bitch is unhealthy or too small. My vet has not said any different, i was merely checking to see how often (breed edited) bitches actually dont make it.

> Where everyone sorts out your mess; leaving you free to do it all over again.

I think the OP realises and acknowledges her mistake now. Giving her a kicking isn't going to help either now or in the future. And if anyone was reading this exchange and felt undecided about asking a question themselves, well I reckon they'd think twice about it. Surely that's not what we intend?

well i hope her dog stays well and that the lady learns by it. And that she has not really been too put off to come back on in future. Personally i think I'd rather be asked 20 times the same question and know that i've probably helped 20 dogs than just hope people read past topics to learn. Sometimes you may miss things on here there are a lot of words to read. I know some of you have been on here for years, waited years before having a litter and some seem to be born with 5 litters to their names but surely those of you are the ones that we all come on here to talk to!It just seems a shame when there seems to be such a wealth of knowledge that short tempers and such bluntness might put people off. Don't you think?

If they really need help they would seek a professional, like what is being done 2mro morning. We are here to give advice but also a cyber kick up the behind.

Louise

This is coming under JeanSW, but its not directed at her.. this is a general statement ...

this poster has had good advice from everyone.. some harsh, some a little less harsh... but all of it sound and good..

Now.. there are many new posters on the board recently, and if you take a look at many of their initial posts.. the girl is pregnant.. too far along for the injection.. and all refuse to go down the route of termination and spey

Does anyone see a pattern here.. which give rise to concern about whether this or any other poster in the same sitution is actually real..

There are also many new posters who are genuine dog lovers, and are to be commended for their empathy, and compassion.. but they have not seen this from the other side.. they have not seen their bitches die in whelp, they have not seen the pups fade and die over a period of days...

while it seems harsh, it is a great reality, and with all due respect, sometimes its the hardest thing to advise people, but for the sake of the poor bitches.. when people ask for advice, why, why on earth dont they heed and take on board what people.. good people .. people with experience tell them..

It becomes very clear that many people come looking for sympathy, and while we would all like a pat on the shoulder, a sticking plaster, and a huge 'there there', its not going to take away the very real fact that this or any other poor girl could die, because no research whatsoever was done before the owner brought an entire bitch into a home with an entire dog.. Gay or otherwise .. Even simple common sense tell you.. Boy plus Girl.. = babies.. whatever the species.. steps can and should be taken to ensure it doesnt happen, and if steps are not taken, then that is pure and simply irresponsible..

So while we all rant and one end.. and give huge hugs of sympathy on the other.. we have to put emotions aside and do whats best for the bitch, who apparently had no say in this whatsoever...

to the Original poster.. my advice..If she were my girl, I would make a vet appointment ASAP, have the pups removed and the girl spayed.. there are absolutely no reasons for keeping a missalliance going, especially in this breed.. this girl is more likely to have problems and need to have a c/section. Can you justify doing this to her.. just because you didnt do your homework?

Where everyone sorts out your mess; leaving you free to do it all over again.

I don't see that at all. The possibility of an expensive c-section and a possibly dead bitch -that to me is very much a lesson learnt. None of us here can whelp the bitch or do anything hands on, that's all down to the owner and the owner's purse.

> We are here to give advice but also a cyber kick up the behind.
>

I'm speechless.

well indapendent1 i will be thinking of your little  bitch tomorrow as i do all the situations i read on here and i hope that your vet advises you with her as No. 1 priority. I bid you all good night I'm sure i will be back on to learn what i can tomorrow. Night Night all x

Thank you for being so kind trish, and i apologize for the cyber butt kicking you have received for being so nice to me! & I thank all posters who have given me advice, who have told me right from wrong, and that have given me their outlook on the situation. Thank you. All rude comments aside i did not mean for a ruckus i was simply asking for information on mucus yellow discharge, with very little blood (less than an inch of discharge in total). I understand this is a serious matter, and i wouldnt wish it upon someone who isnt an animal lover. I love my dogs, and i am looking to do the best for my bitch. Please do not continue to badger me on what would, could've happened. My bitch is pregnant now! And i was given the option of giving her the shot but i want these puppies as they are a direct result of my beloved dogs. So here are the facts she is 14 months, two weeks from full term, and she is 6.6 pounds and healthy, but she did discharge. She is in a good mood, and is eating, has not vomited, so she is not in whelp.

> I wouldnt have the spay with the c section id leave it for a while

As long as things go smoothly having a spay at the same time as the C section has advantages, saves having a second surgery, or worse still the owner being caught out again when the bitch next comes in season.

I had a bitch spayed after a C section with no problems (I was going to have her spayed after that litter anyway so requested it).

> so she is not in whelp.

Are you under the impression now that your bitch is not pregnant (in whelp = pregnant).  Or have you misunderstood the terminology and took it as in labour/whelping?

Anyway if you are determined to proceed with this unwise pregnancy/litter I suggest you get hands on help from breed experts as playing amateur midwife to a toy breed is not to be recommended.

I do hope you have more knowledge on how to rear (possibly hand rear and feed every two hours around the clock), and the time to devote to the new family for at least the next 14 weeks.

>There are also many new posters who are genuine dog lovers, and are to be commended for their empathy, and compassion.. but they have not seen this from the other side.. they have not seen their bitches die in whelp, they have not seen the pups fade and die over a period of days

I'm not sure about your logic here. Being a new poster on this board doesn't necessarily mean being inexperienced with dogs and breeding. It might simply mean that people haven't been posting on this board for very long! Also I have to say personally that having spent all my working life teaching people, they nearly always learn better through positive reinforcement rather than punishment.

As regards:

> when people ask for advice, why, why on earth dont they heed and take on board what people.. good people .. people with experience tell them..

well they're not the same people asking each time are they, they won't know that some of you have spent years on this board advising others until you are blue in the face.

I think if we intend to help others and share our experience then we need to do it in a non-punitive and unaggressive way, otherwise I really think we will only succeed in putting people off asking for help here. And what's the point of that...

She is in whelp, but she is not in labour. I fear that your decision to keep the puppies was against the health of your girl and perhaps not the best thing for her. Thats why the vet advised it, as was mentioned recently present life before possible life??

I think if we intend to help others and share our experience then we need to do it in a non-punitive and unaggressive way, otherwise I really think we will only succeed in putting people off asking for help here. And what's the point of that...

Fully agree. Nobody HAS to post a reply. And I think there is a big difference between somebody asking for advice and taking it (or at the very least appearing to take it) and those that appear and say "I want to mate my so and so bitch up to my own dog to have cute little puppies" and when told of all the good reasons NOT to, they say "Well I don't care what you snobs say, I will do what I want anyway". THOSE people we can shout at, those that asked advice and then rejected it -often aggressively too. But there is a big difference between poster type a and b. IMHO anyway!

>And i was given the option of giving her the shot but i want these puppies as they are a direct result of my beloved dogs. So here are the facts she is 14 months, two weeks from full term, and she is 6.6 pounds and healthy, but she did discharge. She is in a good mood, and is eating, has not vomited, so she is not in whelp.

Ah.. now this is quite different from what you led us to believe in your original post.. you didnt tell us that you have been given the option of injection.. I, and possibly most of us were under the assumption that you had only just found out, and were looking for advice..

OK.. for a start.. Yes.. your girl IS in whelp,, thats what being pregnant is called.. .. I assume what you mean is.. she is not Whelping .. that means actual labour, giving birth.. and while looking to do the best for her, well its slighly late for that.  You now need to make sure that she survives all of this..

tomorrow, as soon as you can.. please go to your nearest Pets at home, and buy yourself the book of the bitch.. go home.. make a huge pot of tea, sit down, and read .. this book will take you right through.. and please keep reading and referring to it.. if there is something you do not understand.. come back and ask..

Also.. please keep your vet up to date with any changes, he will need to know if there is a chance that she could go into early labour and and require emergency surgery, not just a routine C/S ...

my bad yes i meant in labour as oppose to whelp. You know Louise same goes for myself as goes for my bitch, i would not abort my child even if i knew early on i may die, or the child is endangered, or has birth defects. I understand how serious a pregnant bitch is, and again i have asked a question about her discharge NOT IF I AM A SUITABLE OWNER! So either you answer my question, or dont post at all!

'>m not sure about your logic here. Being a new poster on this board doesn't necessarily mean being inexperienced with dogs and breeding

If you look back at manyof there posts. you will find they are not experienced in possible emergencies.. having one litter, does not a expert make.. in fact having 10 litters does not an expert make.. but having litters die, having a bitch clinging to life.. going through many of the things that you would wish on no-one.., does not make an expert, but it does give a little credence to my replies.. been there.. done that.. and hated every tearjerking moment... sometimes the facts of life are not what you want to hear.. but they are real.. and the real punishement does not come from me.. it comes from watching a life fading away in your arms.. knowing that you could have stopped it...

>well they're not the same people asking each time are they, they won't know that some of you have spent years on this board advising others until you are blue in the face

Does it matter who they are.. why ask for help, if you dont want to hear the answers.. why get upset, when someone tells you what you dont want to hear... yes.. some people could word there answers in a slightly different way.. but the answer is still the same..

> think if we intend to help others and share our experience then we need to do it in a non-punitive and unaggressive way

I didnt think I was being aggressive.. just truthfull.. to the point.. and very concerned

> same goes for myself as goes for my bitch, i would not abort my child even if i knew early on i may die

They are two different situations though - you can make that decision and take that risk for yourself; your bitch cannot do the same, she is relying on you to protect her and safeguard her welfare. I would discuss again with your vet what is going to be the best option for her health and safety.  How did the vet check she was in whelp - was she scanned?

> why get upset, when someone tells you what you dont want to hear...

Anyone would get upset if they are being set about in an aggressive way. (And no, I wasn't referring to you in particular, like yours my post relates to the some of the general comment on this thread)

> yes.. some people could word there answers in a slightly different way.. but the answer is still the same..

And I think the answer will be much better received if the OPs are not being made to feel threatened and defensive when they've made a mistake.

Like you, I feel very concerned for this little bitch and I hope the poster has a wise vet who will support her throughout.

>(And no, I wasn't referring to you in particular

I had to make the assumption that you were referring to myself.... it was my words you picked out. copied,pasted and highlighted.. and my post you replied to.... 

No she was not scanned, she had an ultrasound twice

ultrasound is a scan

So yes she was scanned.

I don't breed, so I have no advice, just want to urge you to keep persevering with the posters here on CD - they have a mountain of advice and experience that can help you - especially if things do go wrong, for this tiny little girl, who is only a baby herself. If it were me in this situation I'd be scared witless about what might happen to her, so I wouldn't need lots of people telling me how bad I'd been, I'd just need positive support.

Yes the OP is irresponsible without a doubt BUT IMO if people desperately need help/advice then its seems unfair to come down on them 'like a ton of bricks'.

Its the poor dogs that suffer. 

On that thought I shall lock the post as no more useful advice is likely to be forthcoming as the poster should be taking the bitch to her Vet today.