Information regarding the health screening and results you should expect can be found on the Club website.

The breeder has said that they havent had specific eye tests done but the mother has regular vet checks. They also said the puppy has been vet checked and will be again at 7.5wks when it is microchipped. Does this sound legitimate?

Hopefully this will be my last question for the day!!

Thanks

Willow can always arrive in 2 years time! :)

Regular Vet checks mean nothing.  That's usually a phase used by pet breeders rather than knowledgable breeders.  You need to see a copy of the clear eye certificates of Sire and Dam before you consider travelling from one end of the country to the other. :) 
These responses don't sound good to me. :(

> The breeder has said that they havent had specific eye tests done but the mother has regular vet checks. They also said the puppy has been vet checked and will be again at 7.5wks when it is microchipped. Does this sound legitimate?
>

No, not in the least.  There is no excuse for not carrying out eye tests on breeding stock.  Your dog could be blind by the time it is 3 years old.  The stud dog owner is obviously not reputable either.  I would definately refuse this puppy.

Ah. In which case, the search continues!! Anyone know of a golden bitch ready in time for xmas? Anyone? Anyone?!! Please!!

Thanks for the advice

Bless you! :)  Contact the Cocker Club posted a way back.

Contact the Breed Club.  They are your very best bet for finding a reputable breeder who hopefully will not just offer to supply you with a puppy but will work through with you whether you have a feasable chance of working out an acceptable lifestyle for both you and the dog.  However it is very unlikely that a reputable breeder can be found in time for Christmas, in fact most breeders will avoid producing a litter for that period.

A well bred, health tested puppy is worth waiting for. 

The most important tests now available for cockers are optigen PRA & FN for herediatary blindness & kidney disease (IMO) One of the parents need to be tested clear on these, so that the puppies will not inherit the disease's but they can be carriers.  If anyone knows some more tests (on top of the standard yearly eye tests) please let me know.

Benjamin, please ask the breeder if they have had mum or dad tested.  If they haven't bothered (the tests cost nearly £200) then please reconsider and find a breeder that has.

I can completely understand your excitement and looking forward to getting a puppy (i totally agree with everyone advising just to get the one) but this can save an awful lot of heartache in the future if the breeder has done everything possible to give their pups a good, healthy start in life. 

Personally, I would never sell a puppy to a home if they all work full time.

Ive asked if the breeder will get these checks done prior to us taking the puppy. I had suggested covering the expense myself but didnt realise it would add £200 onto the cost of the puppy. I may have to look look elsewhere if they are not willing to have tests / disclose information on the parents.

Thanks again for all the help.

I think you have made a very sensible decision to get one pup rather than two.  I have two working cockers, one who is five, and the other a puppy of 14 weeks.  The puppy is very cute, but frankly he has been a nightmare at times and reduced me to tears on several occasions.  At one point I was conviced he had some kind of canine ADHD, and was actually untrainable.  This was despite me having brought up a cocker puppy before, with relatively few problems.  The thought of having two puppies, and of them not listening to or bonding with me at all because they would, understandably, be more interested in each other is enough to bring me out in a cold sweat.  I have always loved working cockers but my latest experience is enough to make me think that, next time, it's going to be a different make of gundog.  Comparing the labradors and spaniels in our puppy class and seeing everying looking pityingly at us mad spaniel owners, I think I've seen the light!

Ive asked if the breeder will get these checks done prior to us taking the puppy. I had suggested covering the expense myself but didnt realise it would add £200 onto the cost of the puppy. I may have to look look elsewhere if they are not willing to have tests / disclose information on the parents.

That's very kind Benjamen but it's not YOUR responsibilty.  A good breeder would get at least eye tests done because THEY want to breed healthy dogs!  I really think that you need to look elsewhere?

> Regular Vet checks mean nothing.  That's usually a phase used by pet breeders rather than knowledgable breeders.  You need to see a copy of the clear eye certificates of Sire and Dam before you consider travelling from one end of the country to the other. :-) 
> These responses don't sound good to me. :-(

ahh... no not to me either...

> I may have to look look elsewhere if they are not willing to have tests / disclose information on the parents.
>

you really should. one of the common tests that is done on dogs is testing for hip dysplasia (where the joint doesn't fit right), this is done under x- ray. we got a rescue dog once, no history and found walking the streets. hi hips ended up becoming so painful for him (at approx 4 years old) that we had to have him pts. now there is no guarentee that he didn't come from tested stock but with the various other things wrong with him would suggest otherwise.

the agony for him and us was awful. you do not want to go through something similar when its possible to try and prevent genetic issues.

as has been said you might struggle getting a litter for xmas- why are you wanting for then? is it just because of the time off? to clarify many responsible breeders will avoid (as well as possible) having a litter around then as it attracts the buyers that want them for christmas and dump them by spring. having said some good breeders have to have them then due to bitches seasons etc.

if you try the breed clubs they will have a list of good breeders and when they are expecting pups. as the others have said though a good pups worth waiting for :) a well bred pup will probably be healthier, will be well socialised and will have started being trained to give you a real advantage.

another suggestion to you might be getting an older pup? many show breeders 'run a dog on' to see its how potential. if this does not work out they may then be looking to home the pup in a pet home. an older pup will be more confident, a good way trained already and will probably cope with your work set up a little easier than a baby puppy.

Benjamin, can I ask why you went to a breeder of working Cockers? In my experience they are much more energetic than the show-bred ones, and therefore harder work.

Ive asked if the breeder will get these checks done prior to us taking the puppy. I had suggested covering the expense myself but didnt realise it would add £200 onto the cost of the puppy. I may have to look look elsewhere if they are not willing to have tests / disclose information on the parents.

Thanks again for all the help

I ditto what the others have said.  It is hard to let go when you have located a puppy but a good breeder would honestly not need to be asked to do all these tests they just do them regardless of the costs.

Another one will come along, contact the breed clubs and good luck.

PS glad to see your listening to some advise so many come and go and don't and then it is too late.

My friend has working dogs and through my experience with them, I think they are what we are looking for. I am open on this though.

Can anyone give an opinion of this site? (Edit: link removed) They have a golden bithc available and seem to be more reputable / reliable than the previous breeder I contacted.

No. I only looked at the menu, found several breeds including one designer cross. A responsible breeder has two, maybe 3 (rarely!) breeds at the very most, and don't deliberately crossbreed. These people are breeding for money, good breeders breed to improve the breed.

opinion..........not a lot            4 different breeds plus deliberatly breeding crosses and asking silly money for them

Thanks for your response. I was wondering if the documentation and guarantees they provide can be trusted? I wouldnt wish to enter into the ethical argument of dog breeding but if they can provide a fit and healthy puppy, I may be interested.

They seem to have everything that has been mentioned in this thread previously and have some good feedback from clients.

> They seem to have everything that has been mentioned in this thread previously and have some good feedback from clients.

This is their website ;-)  Go to the breed club, or a KC accredited breeder.  You will find a breeder that does all the relevent health tests but in addition will also be obliged to conform to their code of conduct and have real accountability.

> Can anyone give an opinion of this site? ......They have a golden bithc available and seem to be more reputable / reliable than the previous breeder I contacted.

I don't want to rain on your parade but think you will find it difficult to locate a responsible Working Cocker breeder who health tests their breeding dogs and will also have a specific colour puppy ready for Christmas. Unfortunately, only a minority of working Cocker breeders do health testing on their dogs so you would need to be patient to find one that does annual eye testing, DNA testing for prcd_PRA and ideally hip scoring too. If you find a breeder website that does not mention any health tests, then it's fairly safe to assume they don't do any testing and if they also offer a number of other breeds/cross-breeds, then it's likely to be a commercial operation with profit as the main aim. Of course there are some good breeders out there but it will take some time to find one with the right puppy for you - it's not something you should aim to do quickly by a certain date. If you take the time pressure off yourself, you are more likely to eventually find the right pup from a good breeder but it could take months not weeks

stear well clear. genuinely the breed club will sort you out straight away with a good, quality breeder and get you a good pup. i doubt the wait would be to long either as they are a popular breed. but even if it is its worth putting in time and effort for, this animal will be your responsibility, it's health and happiness are in your hands and that includes making sure its from a good source where the required effort has been put in. anyone with 4 breeds and a cross for sale is not putting in that effort.

beyond the health and wellbeing of your pup a good breeder is an asset to you. they will be a call or email away for the dogs lifetime to help out with any issues, will give you advice and assistance. many breeders will even act as a boarding kennel when a family go on holiday. there are huge benefits to you and your dog to find a good breeder.

> I wouldnt wish to enter into the ethical argument of dog breeding but if they can provide a fit and healthy puppy, I may be interested.
>

Benjamin, you are buying a living creature, not shopping for designer gear or a holiday abroad. Hopefully this puppy will be a part of your family for the next ten to fifteen years, so isn't it worthwhile going to someone who really cares about the breed and can offer you support and friendship throughout that time?

Of course you want a fit, healthy puppy. You might just, if you are lucky, get that from someone who breeds dogs for a living. You are more likely to get her from someone who has dedicated years of their life to researching the breed and has bred a litter because they want to keep a puppy for themself, but needs to find equally good homes for the rest of the litter.

> and have some good feedback from clients.

Good dog breeders don't, in my experience, have 'clients' - they have puppy owners, and are always happy to get feedback on the development of 'their' puppies.

Please, Benjamin, follow the advice that has been given on this forum. Get in touch with the breed club and go and visit some breeders. A good breeder will want to meet you in person well before it is time for you to take your puppy home - and you will be the one having to convince them that yours will be the right home for their precious puppy.

Just a quick note as I have a friend who bought 2 Cocker Spaniel puppies (from different litters) at the same time.  Everything was great until the pups hit about 9 mths then fights began to break out.  2 years down the line the girls still have fights and cannot be left together when alone.

I only say this to make you aware you may actually have to seperate the pups as they get older.  No-one wants to come home to a bloodbath!

Sorry edited to add: I didn't realise you had already posted to say you'd only get one pup.

Is there any reason why you can't wait a little longer to get the right pup for you and your lifestyle?

Also maybe consider the show type of Cocker as I believe these are alot less energetic.  I can't imagine a working cocker being shut in most of the day will be a pleasant dog to own.

Have you called the breed club contact Jeangenie posted? Sometimes very good breeders have pups available if one of their buyers pulls out unexpectedly. I know you want a working cocker but it sounds like more than anything you want a nice natured, healthy golden girl. My neighbor across the road got a working cocker since his brother had one. My eyes did pop out a bit in surprise when they told me what they were getting. She's about 7 months old now and his own comment when I saw them on the beach "I had no idea they were so busy, she's lovely but really hard work". He says now he knows why I queried them about wanting working type. :)

I'm guessing you really want the pup before Christmas so you have that two weeks to spend with it but they're pups for a long time. If you're arrangements for puppy care are adequate you don't have to have time off to bring a puppy home. Day care for when they're really small is one solution (with a trusted place)

I havent contacted the club yet, but will asap.

The 'breeder' I was going to buy 2 pups from has replied saying they dont have any documentation for the pups OR the parents! Seem to have dodged a bulet there. Thanks again to you all.

P.S. Yes, I would like a puppy in time for xmas as i have the best part of 3 wks off to help it settle. Obviously i wont rush it though, my girlfriend will just have to wait!!

> P.S. Yes, I would like a puppy in time for xmas as i have the best part of 3 wks off to help it settle. Obviously i wont rush it though, my girlfriend will just have to wait!!

well its a pretty good thing to be getting...i'd be happy waiting :)

and yes, first breeder sounds dodgy...

best of luck with the breed club :)

Id hope the neighbours will be at work so barking shouldnt affect them. Im able to nip home at lunchtimes so if there are any isses I can deal with these.

what if neighbours not at work? or maybe do nights and need to sleep in the day? and how will 'nipping home' sort out these problems? i have problems with my dogs barking and they are rarely left alone!

Benjamin,

If you can use the PM facility, can you PM me please?  I have a friend who has working Cockers in central Scotland (She doesn't have puppies at the moment incase anyone thinks I am plugging them) but she will be a mine of information to you and you can see her dogs to see if it is the breed you really want.   She can tell you all the stories about running off etc!   ;-)

tina if you want an answer from the person who posted that your best replying to them as it tells them :)

hopefuly benjamin will spot it though

hth

Benjamin, if you aren't busy this Saturday why don't you go along to Gundog Breeds Association of Scotland Championship Show at Ingliston? That way you will see show bred cocker spaniels and see if they will fit your criteria.

o-one can guarantee that any puppy will be 100% healthy.  However, the type of breeder that sells 2 puppies to the same home, let alone one where there will be no-one home for most of the day,  is unlikely to be one that has health first and foremost in their mind when breeding unfortunately.

tottally agree
i know no breeder who would sell two puppies together
and to some one who works all day
a disaster waiting to happen

e asked if the breeder will get these checks done prior to us taking the puppy. I had suggested covering the expense myself but didnt realise it would add £200 onto the cost of the puppy. I may have to look look elsewhere if they are not willing to have tests / disclose information on the parents.

you should not have to cover any expense
a good breeder will ensure parents are tested before  breeding
far too many people just breed for money and this sounds like one of them

I would recommend you speak to the person mentioned in ChristineW's post above, she is a friend of mine and a mine of information on working Cockers, I found my first dog through her and she owns a few of his relatives. Although as the owner of 3 of these dogs I really would urge you to reconsider your breed choice, working Cockers are as the name suggests bred to work and as such they need a lot of exercise, training and mental and physical stimulation. They do not take well to being left alone for long periods of time and there are sadly ever increasing numbers of young workers coming into rescues because people get them without really realising what they're taking on, I've fostered a good few of them which have come from completely unsuitable homes for this breed. The owners find they just cannot cope with the dog paticularly once they hit the adolescent phase at anything from 8-9 months onwards when they really can be a nightmare and can challenge even the most experienced owner. Are you planning to work this dog or do something such as agility or flyball with it instead? They are lovely dogs if they are well trained and provided with plenty of breed-appropriate exercise and stimulation but they are challenging, stubborn, have high hunting drives and can be hard to train. Dogs bred from strong working lines do not make easy pets for novice owners and in the case of working Cockers ONLY fit for purpose dogs from good working lines should be being bred. I also work but when I got my first dog (the only one of mine I got at 8 weeks old) I had an OH who worked from home and for the subsequent dogs who came to me at later ages I had daycare arrangements in place for them.

The recommended health tests for working Cockers are Optigen for PRA/prcd plus annual eye tests and hip scoring. I am also based in Central Scotland and there are always a good few litters of working Cockers available around here although most of them are not from good breeders. Pups should be KC registered and the breeder should ask you more questions than you ask them and should be able to discuss in depth the lines their pups come from. Colour is not a reason to choose a working Cocker puppy, it should be the last consideration of all behind temperament, health, pedigree, working ability etc. etc. I would question any working Cocker breeder who is willing to sell more than one puppy to the same home or a pup to a pet home where it will be left alone for long periods of time. Also bear in mind that we are now in the shooting season and as such most working dog breeders who actually use their dogs for what they're bred for will not have litters at this time of year, the general time when reputable working Cocker breeders have pups available is the spring/early summer after the shooting season has finished and so that the bitches can recover and get fit again in time for the next season starting in the autumn.

mmmm i def would not get 2 together they will end up wild esp cockers. i got my springer and my friend got his brother the day later and i ended up looking after them both alot. fine at first when they hit about 5 month far to hard to handle and we had to stop keeping them together. i dont belive you can train 2 together. another problem you tend to have is they rely on each other to much and if for some reason one was away e.g vets the other panics and threats (we had this problem on getting my second, and spent well over a year trying to get her to stop relying and threating every time he was out of sight)
your best bet would be to buy one wait till that one is trained then get another.

i prefer workers to, they look totally different and have a totally different nature, but yes i do agree prob more harder work

i have 2 working springers and i no they are bred to work but i honestly still believe you can have them without working them.
i have 2 that are left at home when i go to work dont do agility or anything like that and they are the calmest 2 dogs i have ever come across, very well behaved and a great pleasure to train and watch when out. my friend also had a working cocker and like mine he is really calm and he does not work at all. i think if you are willing to take these dogs out plenty and play with them enough you dont need to work them to own one. my bitch is not interested in working or playing at all (the many times we have ryed to encourage her, she is not interested) as long as you put the work in and train these dogs properly i belive working dogs are a real pleasure to own

Good luck with your search :)

My guess is , the breeder has used said stud for his working ability... as they are from working lines..

Can I ask one more question?  why are you after a working Cocker,  are you planning on working your dog/s?

If not  and you are simply after a pet,  you may be far better going for "show" lines... specailly as you and your partner will be at work most  of the day.

Working line of any gundog breed are what they say on the pack , and bred to work resulting in higher levels of stamina, and activity.

For most pet owners a dog from show lines will give you more than enough to be going on with... they will still be able to go on long walks..but should( if bred right) be far calmer dogs, fitting into the average home,

Quick update!

Thanks to the scottish cocker spaniel club we have found the perfect little dog locally and are looking to make arrangements to take her home in the next couple of weeks!!

Thanks again for all your help. No doubt i'll be back no here asking more questions soon enough!!

That's great news!

Excellent news! Let us know how you get on. :-)

Now there's a result!  Really please for you.  You've avoided a very near miss and can feel really self rightous that you've reduced your carbon footprint by not driving all the way down South! :)

lovely news! the very best of luck with her :)

Hahah!! Yes, but to make up for this we're going to call her Carbon Kate!!

Only messing, dont have a name yet. She was a cheeky little thing so thinking along those lines.

P.S she is a show type blue roan, not working and golden as originally sought out.

Thats really good news!  You must be so excited!  You have definetly done the right thing and all the luck in the world with your new 'baby'.
Wendy x

Congratulations! I'm so pleased you found a puppy. Funny how things work out - a show type blue roan sounds lovely. :)

That's always the way...we can be adament that we know exactly what we want and then something different jumps in...it must be fate.

Have to say I do love the blue roan Cockers, enjoy your time with your new puppy when you get her.

I think this will will be a much better match for you and your lifestyle.

I'm pleased to hear this too. And don't forget that CD will be here to help when she turns from a gorgeous cuddly puppy into a teenage hooligan, and you need advice on how to cope!