I think rescues should re name the dogs in their care preferably to something-doodle & hike the donation price up to at least £800. Maybe then the idiots who buy from BYB would get a dog from rescue instead?!!

>I think rescues should re name the dogs in their care preferably to something-doodle

It's possible that the bottom's fallen out of the oodle market. They're down to £300 in my local free paper.

overbreeding, particularly so in some breeds more than others.

I wouldnt want it for any breed as I think of the poor bitches it effects who have to mother so many litters so all breeds it would be for me :(

Great news JG :) !!

> I think of the poor bitches it effects who have to mother so many litters

Part of the problem but I was thinking more of the breeds that suffer from so many people being involved in breeding, mostly their pets.

Ahh I see, we seriously need dog licensing in this country I know it wouldnt be the be all and end all but it would deffo help alot with certain breeds.
Pet breeders just shouldnt be breeding as they are just that, Pets!!
They should do what I did and spade their bitch as soon as safe to do so to avoid any unwanted litters which is what we are over run with.

On GMTV this morning a shelter was appealling as it had 30 puppies just come in, 30 pups all from unwanted litters :(

> we seriously need dog licensing

We seriously don't!  Although I am sure that is part of the plan that the RSPCA are working on.

> We seriously don't!

I thought people on here wanted it and breeders alike too?
Or did I misunderstand??

I thought it was as a way to regulate and control the dog population by giving dogs suited to peoples living and money situations etc?

jeangenie: They're still as ridiculously priced as ever in our local paper :-(  Strange though.....they are always advertised but when out walking the dog i very rarely bump into any of them.

> I thought it was as a way to regulate and control the dog population by giving dogs suited to peoples living and money situations etc?

It hasn't done so in the past and doesn't in other countries that have registration. 

> Ahh I see, we seriously need dog licensing in this country I know it wouldnt be the be all and end all but it would deffo help alot with certain breeds.

Funnily enough it hasn't worked in Northern Ireland where they do have dog licences. Sorry it's not the dogs that need licences, it's the owners than need to be licensed before they get a dog(or any other pet TBH)

At present anyone can go out & buy most animals & breed from them, no dog licence would stop them doing that-I wonder how many BYB who have three or four bitches that are bred from every season have a licence ?

Neutering should not be used as contraception thus excusing irresponsible owners from having to have total control over their dogs & bitches. Yes spay bitches for health reasons(ie to prevent pyometra), castrate dogs it they aren't entire, but simply neutering everything that moves is not treating the cause, irresponsible owners will still let their dogs roam, just because they can't reproduce does mean their owners are any more responsible that owners who let entire dogs roam.

> On GMTV this morning a shelter was appealling as it had 30 puppies just come in, 30 pups all from unwanted litters :-(

These unwanted puppies were of which pedigree breed ?????

> it's the owners than need to be licensed before they get a dog(or any other pet TBH)
>

Sorry MM that is what I meant in terms of licensing but if it hasnt worked it would just cost us tax payers more money to bring in and if it doesnt work whats the point?

> These unwanted puppies were of which pedigree breed ?????

I couldnt tell you the breed as they were all under 8 weeks old and the covergare was only for about 3 mins, they looked like collie crosses with black and white colouring but they were short haired and had lab like ears?
The rescue workers said they were all unwanted pups from people who had had litters

The licensing system in NI is for the dogs not the owners, which is why it hasn't worked.

I saw the film clip & the puppies were not cross collies they were mongrels so at least their existance cannot be laid at the KC's door.

Pet owners should be licensed the same way car drivers are, they should have to take a suitablity test & then their dog would HAVE to attend training classes.

In Germany they do have to pay a dog tax, but it is reduced for trained dogs(with qualifications)& also they get help towards owning & running a training club & field on which to train their dogs. The clubs in Germany have Club Houses for the after training relaxation time ;-)

> In Germany they do have to pay a dog tax, but it is reduced for trained dogs(with qualifications)& also they get help towards owning & running a training club & field on which to train their dogs

That sounds brilliant, that would be so good over here I think.

> I saw the film clip & the puppies were not cross collies they were mongrels so at least their existance cannot be laid at the KC's door.
>

Ahh I see, like I said I didnt know what the were but looked like crosses to me for sure.

> Pet owners should be licensed the same way car drivers are, they should have to take a suitablity test & then their dog would HAVE to attend training classes.
>

Can you imagine how much better the world would be if everyone HAD to train their dogs :) It would be a eutopia of happy dogs and puppies all co-inciding and having play together, I like the idea of a relaxation house too for us humans lol

Just the other day a lady brought her cocker spaniel pup in the vets while we were waiting for Turbo as he was having his S.Scrape.
She asked if we had trained our boy and I said yes and also you HAVE to train pups or else they are just a nightmare for you and everyone you meet dogs included and we wouldnt have a dog if we didnt train it etc tc and I passed on the APDT website info to her whihc she wrote down and also the details of a local trainer who she could reach, it felt sooo good to be seen passing on this info as the other dog owners writhed in shame with their unruly dogs barking every 1 second at anything that came in lol
We always and I mean always promote training to anyone who will listen, and even those who wont lol :) ;)

Neutering should not be used as contraception thus excusing irresponsible owners from having to have total control over their dogs & bitches. Yes spay bitches for health reasons(ie to prevent pyometra), castrate dogs it they aren't entire, but simply neutering everything that moves is not treating the cause, irresponsible owners will still let their dogs roam, just because they can't reproduce does mean their owners are any more responsible that owners who let entire dogs roam.

But I would have thought that it would have helped with the unplanned/unwanted litter situation surely? If the dogs owned by irresponsible owners who let their dogs roam at will were not physically able to reproduce then it would be a start for cutting down the numbers of puppies being produced. DT do run a free neutering scheme in areas from which their biggest intake of dogs come from and that is one of their schemes I do believe is a start to controlling the numbers of unplanned litters.
If those people are going to let their dogs roam whatever and whenever it would seem beneficial, to my way of thinking, that they were unable to increase the dog population whilst doing so.

But that would not make the owners responsible would it ? DT still take in in whelp bitches & raise all the puppies-sorry but that is a big no no in my books, they should do as we have done in the past either spay the bitch asap or do an elective C section & pts all the puppies. The RSPCA & all the other big rescues do the same(ie whelp the bitches & keep the puppies)(this is why the RSPCA neuter puppies @ 8 weeks of age)They know they can sell puppies far easier & for more money than older dogs

>DT do run a free neutering scheme in areas from which their biggest intake of dogs come from and that is one of their schemes I do believe is a start to controlling the numbers of unplanned litters.

Only if the owners have their animals neutered of course.

If it is so bad then the DT & RSPCA should take a leaf out of the Soi Dog Foundation-have a scoop & neuter policy-if a dog is on the streets with no ID then then it should be taken in & neutered, if the owners want them back, then they can pay for them & the operation

But that would not make the owners responsible would it ?

No - but it would help to stop more and more unwanted dogs going into rescue and anything that does that would seem to be a good idea in my book :) The owners of such dogs are irresponsible and this does need addressing but if the roaming dogs are incapable of producing more puppies to churn through the system then that has to be a step in the right direction.

I think the culling of puppies for any rescue that is funded solely by public donation would  result in a huge fall in donations and support. It is a very emotive subject and I think a lot of rescue supporters would not want to be associated with a rescue that operated a culling policy . To prevent unwanted dogs being produced in the first place has to be a bonus IMHO.

> No - but it would help to stop more and more unwanted dogs going into rescue and anything that does that would seem to be a good idea in my book :-) The owners of such dogs are irresponsible and this does need addressing but if the roaming dogs are incapable of producing more puppies to churn through the system then that has to be a step in the right direction.

You have missed my point the scheme only works if the owners of the dogs have them neutered which they won't as they are irresponsible enough to let their dogs roam in the first place

I must have misunderstood this then:

Neutering should not be used as contraception thus excusing irresponsible owners from having to have total control over their dogs & bitches. Yes spay bitches for health reasons(ie to prevent pyometra), castrate dogs it they aren't entire, but simply neutering everything that moves is not treating the cause,

I thought you were saying that neutering wasn't desirable :)

>Actually I understood that some rescues do charge people a fee when they take in a dog?

Yes I looked in to this as I was curious and the one I found wanted a £70 donation to cover costs. I totally agree that they charge, in this throwaway society it seems like people get a dog and then decide its too much of a tie and want shot of it. A mate of mine works in rescue and the stories I hear about why the people want to give in their dog are staggering.

Or the stories about what people phone rescues wanting - such as "a Golden Retriever that looks like a Whippet". :-P

Relating back to the point of the rotty being taken to the RSPCA after biting his child,... isnt this the vets job more than the rspca's job anyway? I would personally take it to the vet to be put down, not the rspca...

It depends on the owner rather doesn't it - but yes - as my dog I would want to involve a behaviourist and if the dog for any reason could not be safely kept I would arrange the euthanasia myself, not take the dog to the RSPCA and leave it there. (Sorry, forgot to quote, in response to yorkies4eva.) Would say that is actually the owner's job though. ;-)

A behaviourist is a good idea!! Do they cost a lot tho, because i bet a lot of people wouldnt be able to afford.. however if you are truly a passionate owner for your dog, then you would probably try every possible option, not saying that person didnt, its different for different people and i dont know there situation, but it is scary when a dog goes for a child... what i would do i dont know as thankfully it has never happened!

It depends on the behaviourist - some are cheaper than others, some are better than others - the best way to find a behaviourist is through either personal recommendation and KNOWING they are good, and\or from one of the professional bodies that have some codes of conduct and regulations. :-) And price does not necessarily equal quality.

Ohhh right thanks for that, well at least i have that information now for future, hopefully wont need it tho, *touch wood*

Its hard when you get a dog that is lovely as a puppy and then suddenly turns as it gets older, we had a german shepherd years and years ago and it was lovely, friendly to everyone he met, then he started going funny and had fits, and i think something went wrong in his head. He had to go to the vets... to be fair he was fairly old anyway, but its just so sad isnt it!! Wasnt his fault, poor boy

>It's possible that the bottom's fallen out of the oodle market. They're down to £300 in my local free paper.

Saw a poster near our local shop, something-doodles £675, still a huge price in in my book and multiplied by 8 wow!

A warning to anybody thinking of getting a dog from a rescue, not one of the national ones.  This was a small local one. We got our first dog from them, a Golden, collie cross, a lovely gentle boy. However we went back 4 years later to get him a companion and we took home a dog which in our opinion should never have been rehomed.  We paid £40 for him.  They told us he was around 2 years old. It wasnt until he had been with us for a few days that his aggressive nature to wards dogs and even worse people became very evident.

We initially rang the rescue and they said the person we needed to speak to was not there, this happened several times. I don't know if they knew of his aggressive nature or not but they were certainly avoiding us!

We decided not to return him to the rescue to prevent him from being passed on to some other unsuspecting buyer. The question was do we get help to try and sort him out or do we have him put down. I could not bear to have  a healthy dog  put down without giving him a chance. So, we embarked on a journey that if I had known would be so hard I would never have considered it at the time.

It is now over 12 years later, he is still with us but he is still a dog that cannot be trusted with people outside of the family and most other dogs and therefore we lead a very restricted life.

i represent an ESS rescue in Yorkshire, i have had several phonecalls from people who have got our number from the RSPCA, and i have a dog here that came after the Dogs Trust had given my number to the person needing help, so they do work with Breed rescue's where needed