Hi Sharon, Agree totally with your post.No disrespect meant at all to anyone who has medium/small/toy dogs, but if you have never lived with a teenage, untrained giant breed, you just have no idea!!! Before someone jumps down my throat and says " well, train them from a little pup" many do change hands at the teenage stage, due to problems, and those of us who take them on, have to sort it asap.
In my humble opinion, the lady who started this thread about her Briard has a serious problem bubbling under, and with no disrespect to any other poster, clicker training etc is a bit late now. These sort of training methods take time, and time is what she is very short of, before she gets hurt. I agree with all the posts like " make sure you go through the door first" " keep the dog on the lead" ( very difficult when hanging out washing)" give a stuffed kong" ( what a performance to hang out a line full of clothes) " put dog in a crate" ( what, to just go outside?) if you have time and are training a puppy, these ideas are fine. This is an out of control, very heavy , boisterous dog we are talking about here. Time is of the essence!!
IF he were mine, he would get pushed back behind me, held by his scruff and possibly shouted out, and the door would be closed on him, and yes , if neccessary, he WOULD get a firm smack on the bum!! Sorry if I offend, but having lived with giants for 21 years, I know this lady will shortly run into serious problems.(Now sitting here waiting for the **** to hit the fan :) )

From personal experience a loutish medium sized 20kg dog can be enough to flatten you, let alone anything bigger! People just do not sem to comprehend when they take an 8 week old pup home that within 4 months in the case of my breed it will be more than 3/4 grown, and certainly almost full height! I cannot stress the need for train9ing to new owners enough, but still find that some fail to take the dog to classes, and then are surprised that they have a delinquent.

And one of the most difficult thing to attempt to do is explaining to a "new" owner how actions that are cute/adorable at 12 weeks will be unwanted and definitely hard to correct at 10 months in any dog over 20 or so pounds. :rolleyes: size does matter. :) :P

I appreciate the problems of a large out of control adult where the problem has been inherited. This is not the same problem as the same breed at 8 weeks old and different tactics are needed. This is where I said that in class I watch and come up with a different method for those who are having trouble with my usual methods. In class I have handled out of control Deer hounds and Wolf hounds because nine times out of ten the reason why they came along in the first place was because they had problems. As for Briards, I had one in class a few years ago which I used to use to demonstrate to the class with. A truly lovely breed. If only people would come to a class before they have problems rather than after they would find life so much easier.

John

Hi John [said quitely ] it is true early training is the rule of the day . Alec was good as a baby , but like our children became a headstrong 10 mt horror
If he had started that behaviour at 4 months I could have sorted it .
I actually hated calling in the cavalry . but had no choice.I was involved all the way with getting him sorted otherwise it would not have worked,
Iam happy to say the new bully seems to be of a different nature. I dont think there will be any confrontations . xxxxxfingers and toes lol :)

John, its clearly not true of yours, but people with sighthounds often have difficulty in finding a suitable training class. Methods that work with gundogs, collies and GSDs often don't suit wolfhounds/deerhounds, even - perhaps especially - as puppies. The big sighthounds seem to be a problem for trainers without a 'feel' for them, maybe because of their dislike of repetition, tendency to slow, considered response, highly developed hunt/chase instincts, the mental immaturity and sensitivity of many pups despite size and apparent outward confidence, and conversly their usually 'bombproof' nature after the puppy stage. Val's can of rattled pebbles will cause no more than mild curiosity in the adolescent/adult with a sound temperament, but imo harsh shouting or a thrown can of pebbles would put some pups right back although the pup should also be destined to have a solid temperament when grown.

Hi everyone

I just thought that as you were all kind enough to help me with my problem that I would let you know how we are progressing with the jumping and biting in the garden.

I have been training my puppy since she was small, but it was one of those problems that (imho) just crept up on me. It had gradually developed in stages, firstly grabbing me around the legs occasionally, then more often and then when I removed the toys to stop the leg grabbing, the biting started.

Anyhow, I took onboard as much of your advice as I could (bearing in mind that I have three young children and needed a fairly quick fix). We went away for four days leaving Saffy with my mother and when I returned and brought Saffy home I started behaving differently in the garden. I used a 'bark buster' to stop her every time she approached me to leg-grab. This worked initially (and still does on occasion - I am careful to time it correctly and she usually drops the toy and looks around). I have also started to give her a smack on her bottom occasionally (however I admit this only works sometimes). Finally, now I know she is not doing it as often or as keenly, I have started growling NO at her very forcefully (this has worked on occasion, but again not reliably).
Indoors, I have used a rolled up newspaper (did this as a young puppy but then got used to it). Now, I have actually smacked her a couple of times with it so she takes notice again.

All in all, the problem in the garden has all but disappeared. The problem I forsee is when I start playing with her in the garden again, it may reappear.

I know some of you do not agree with smacking and really until this problem, neither did I, but I have come to realise that, as with my children when they cross the line, firmer action may be taken (one smack has a much quicker, longer lasting effect than all the offers of reward, etc). Also, Saffy will only SIT or whatever on command if the treat is really tasty and right under her nose, and then still do it reluctantly. I do not think I need to smack Saffy now, but at the same time, when I tell her firmly NO she realises that it is in her best interest to stop. I hope it lasts.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

A much less bruised Fiona and Saffy

Max used to do the same thing in and out of doors. But over the last month or so he seems to have grown up - probably due to the behaviour program we have him on. Max used to think it was great fun attaching his mouth to your ankle and wrapping his paws around your legs. We did try smacking him on the rump but it seemed to make him more excited. I think with our behaviour program Max has learnt to listen more and realise when to calm down. While we are making him wait a minute for his food we tell him off if he is not staring at us and paying attention. I think this over the few months we have been doing this, it has taught him to listen. He still can become very playfull but is less likely to initiate it now, so I think the feeding regime has had an effect on his alpha status. :d