Debussy the bones are normally on the top of the Butchers section,fresh,you have to grab them quick,those old girls are like whippets,
and Mastifflover my granny is the same,hahahaha
Wendy

> Also a lot of (maybe the majority) of dog owners still feel complete kibble.  Bridie's home cooked meat fish and veg meals sound far healthier

I agree to a point that it probably is healthier to feed raw but if like me you have little knowledge on the subject then I would prefer to feed a good complete food rather than have my dogs miss out on vitamins, minerals and get the balance wrong of protein, fat etc which could be derogatory (sp) to their health.

I know complete food is just that but I like to give my dogs small amounts of raw meat along with veg and fruit and of course bones.  I don't know that dogs get bored of eating the same thing day in day out (have any studies ever been done on this?) but I think that a bit of variety would be more likely to make them more resiliant to any changes in food (e.g. what if you have only fed on e type of food and that is no longer available?)

I too have bought to Morrisons bones and my dogs seem to love them.

Just wondering if Bridie or Ktee had any issues with the way I feed my dogs?

Cornishmal, I have no issue with you.  It was ktee who made the comment.....

>Cornishmals-Just wondering if Bridie or Ktee had any issues with the way I feed my dogs?

No,no,no absolutely not :-D

CM for some reason i kept confusing you with Bridie.On one post i thought i read her saying that she fed Barf,and then on another she said she wont feed raw.But i was reading your barf posts thinking it was her posts.
Don't know how i got your names confused!

Again so sorry for the mix up,and no issues with you at all Cornishmals :)

If it's any help there's a cost comparison on feeding different foods over a year on http://www.pet-food-choice.co.uk/pet_feeding_costs.htm

Personally I've always found that dry complete is the cheapest and most convenient way to feed

Ditto, there is no way I could afford to BARF my dogs by buying from the butcher (they charge 80p for half a marrow bone let alone more edible bones) and Pet shop which is my only option with not being able to store the amount of bulk to get reasonable value from one of the Dog Meat suppliers.  For goodness sake the value chicken wings etc is what we can afford to eat as a family.

When I last fed raw I could order from TPMS as he did me a reduced bulk order, but I had to buy complete from them to make up the minimum price, so the dogs were fed half and half, and I still found the small dog freezer overflowing, and having to put the dog meat in the human freezer.  Then the supplements are quite expensive if you start adding up.

As it is a Bag of Arden Grange feeds my four for three weeks.

Agree totally.  To feed my 5 barf would cost a lot more than the dried.  One 12.5kg bag of supadog great life lasts my lot 2 weeks.

Sarah.

I feed complete & tripe, I find this much cheaper than feeding complete on it's own and it is a lot better for my pup (massive overall improvements with body condition, energy levels, stool consistency etc..since introducing the tripe).

I think the best diet for every dog is one that suits both dog & owner :)

i have 14 mouths to feed all large breed and have just gone over to raw diet, mine love it and i still feed a small amount of complete working diet kibble to make sure they are getting everything they need. i have found so far that it is a little more expensive but not terribly so, the hardest part is the storage for so much meat, i bought a brand new chest freezer which set me back £200 before i started and if a want to order once a month i will need another freezer!!!!
They love it though and i believe it is better for them and certainly more natural. my youngest baby is 14 weeks and she cant get enough of it bless her. They also have sardines for breakfast twice a week and egg twice a week. They all get a large turkey leg at the weekend too, spoilt rotten but they are my children and i love them all to bits!

I think the best diet for every dog is one that suits both dog & owner :-)
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Wouldn't argue with you there.  I'm just stating what's best for mine!

>Personally I've always found that dry complete is the cheapest and most convenient way to feed

But what i have always struggled with...Is it the healthiest and most appropriate diet for canines?? Cheap and convenient for the owners,yes,but is it the best way to feed our companions?

That's fine if that's what works for you.  I prefer to feed mine complete.  I've tried feeding mostly raw, but was very concerned (even after a lot of research) that they weren't getting a balanced diet with enough vitamins, minerals etc., so I went back to a reasonable quality complete.  They still get leftovers, roast dinner, the odd pack of mince, liver, veggies added, so I dont' think they're badly done too and they are all in wonderful condition! 

Sarah.

> But what i have always struggled with...Is it the healthiest and most appropriate diet for canines?? Cheap and convenient for the owners,yes,but is it the best way to feed our companio

When a lot of us struggle to feed the healthiest and best food for our families I think feeding reasonable food to our adaptable carnivorous omnivore is OK.

I'd have a problem feeding the best to my dogs when I can't do that for my kids.

Well Barbara, my dog's favourite meals are rabbits found dead in the fields and horse muck (preferably warm and smelly please, you can wear and enjoy your breakfast with that) so I don't feel guilty about not buying mine steak. :) Oh they really enjoy the bamboo in the back garden too.

We have 11 dogs and i pay round about £260 a month on food

I'd have a problem feeding the best to my dogs when I can't do that for my kids

Echo that Brainless.....:)

I was wondering, when I posted this, how the costs compared with regard to BARF, cheaper and dearer completes. As in, for the 'same sized/breed of dog, which was most cost effective, and with the completes, would you need to feed more of a cheaper complete in comparision to the more expensive, where the cost would  would be almost equal if less of the dearer was needed to be fed. Of course I realise that no two dogs even of the same breed will always have the same feeding requirements, I was looking for an educated guess which is hardly scientific, ;). However, from all the replies it seems there is no comparision, but its been really interesting to see what everyone feeds, and the quantities. :)

> Well Barbara, my dog's favourite meals are rabbits found dead in the fields

I have been lucky enough to pick up a fresh roadkill bunny for which the dogs have been grateful.  Just wish I knew someone who went rabbiting, be worth the extra worming.

When I fed BARF I calculated per meal it was more expensive than Arden Grange, especially once you add in the supplements.

I am sure it can be cheaper for those who can get free or very cheap sources of RMB and order larger quantities of pet meat, and or can get game.

If you have to buy by the few pounds of tripe and mince from Pet shops and pay for the bones from the butcher, plus buy supplements it is going to work out more expensive to BARF than pay the pet show price for a better complete.

But what i have always struggled with...Is it the healthiest and most appropriate diet for canines?? Cheap and convenient for the owners,yes,but is it the best way to feed our companions?

Just had to say we feed our girl on wet butchers tinned (Only ever tripe as the gravy and jelly ones are no good) and her dry food from wellbeloved (biscuits coated in a crunchy gravy)and it is over £40 for a large bag!! So by no way cheap but is so worth it as people constantly comment on how shiny and soft her coat is, and I have to say I agree!
If she has a upset tummy, we cut out the meat and just give her dry and her belly is cleared up in days, the dry food from wellbeloved are packed with nutriants, vitamins and has no supplemented meat, Truly is a wonderful dry food but we always mix with meat usually just for a change of flavour for her :)

>and has no supplemented meat

What's supplemented meat?

>but is so worth it as people constantly comment on how shiny and soft her coat is,

I'm sure you're dog is healthy,and i don't doubt you,but I've met dogs dying of cancer with soft and shiny coats. The proof will be in the pudding for us all when our dogs reach a ripe old age without succumbing to some horrible,diet related disease.
We will see how good the diets we feed our dogs are in a few years time,because this is usually how long it takes for inadequate nutrition to catch up with them. How healthy they are now does not necessarily correlate to how healthy they'll be in 5-10 years time... If that makes sense?? This is why i have always done my best to give them the most healthiest,species appropriate diet i can from day 1

I also wondered what supplemented meat is? :)

I have found it really interesting reading all your comments. I havent got a dog yet 'on list for dobe pup around autumn' it can be so confusing knowing what will be best to feed them!!! Beta seems a popular choice. Are rhings like eukanuba too rich and over priced?? My cat doesnt like iams. Has anyone read victoria stilwells new book on feeding your dog? I havent yet but know she reccommens natural/organic complete food i think. Pretty costly tho. Am i rite in guessing pedigree chum isnt popular? Dont think ive seen it on this post.
Have a good day.....

i agree with dave, this is a really interesting thread! i'm taking over my boy from my parents soon and am thinking about BARF for him so its nice seeing how you all get on with it compared to completes. do you guys find it works out considerably cheaper if you mix between a complete and a barf diet? does this make it difficult to work out if they are getting the right nutrition?

Dave112 - pegigree chum is one of those foods that people either seem to love or hate. I have raised a dog on pedigree chum tinned food, he was the picture of health and in all his 15 years never had 1 ailment, and only ever went to the vet for routine visits. Thinking it's obviously the best food, I got it for my next dog, he can't cope on it (MAJOR runs), he can't cope with any of the better/dearer foods, all that suits him is the cheap canned dog foods (otherwise he gets very itchy & smelly/gets the runs). but then I have to make sure they don't contain any chicken/turky/pork as this will give him ear infections :( . All dogs are individual and I don't believe that there is 1 overall food that suits them all, a food that some would refuse to feed to thier dog will be fed to other dogs that thrive on it.

I as others have said i want to make sure i feed my dog best diet i can! But dont want to spend fortune on fancy premium food if its not really all that.  Anyone know on average how much a doberman would eat of say a dried complete food just roughly. how long would say a 15kg sack last? cheers

Here's the feeding guidlines from a Beta pupy/junior bag of complete,

(with an expected adult weight of 45-70kg) - 1-3 mnths = 510- 635g...3-5 mnths = 640-840g...

so if your'e feeding the pup with an expected adult body weight of 45kg, a 15kg bag should last 29 days while it is 1-3 months old and 23 days after that. (I personnaly found the guidline amounts to be under for my mastiff pup). You obviously allready know that the actual ammount will depend on your pup, some naturally neeed more, others need less.

Hi Astarte,As  you see from the thread on Veggies I am a newly converted BARF fan,however I had an English Bullmastiff,Bramble that was feed very happily on Royal Canin and went through a sack a month about £ 32.We were happy with this diet except for the tendency for her to put on weight.

I agree with you about whats suits dog/owner.  I feed whatever complete is on offer and either raw tripe or chicken wings that I mince up myself on an old mincer-at least 30 years old.

Okay so I only have three toy breeds and one Lab but I still have to put the work in-all worth it in the end all four happy and healthy.

Must be difficult for owners with several large breeds to keep costs down.

I do believe Laughing Dog-Abergele, North Wales-you can collect Tripe and there other products-tripe was so inexpensive when I went to collect-might be worth several people clubbing together and buying in bulk-share petrol costs-worth a look into.

For those in the North West of course

You can find L/Dog site if you google it

Ktee, when you  say:

>Also Bridie if you would like to get into a debate,reasoning or the actual science behind canine nutrition i would be more than willing and able to accommodate you

and:

>I'm sure you're dog is healthy,and i don't doubt you,but I've met dogs dying of cancer with soft and shiny coats. The proof will be in the pudding for us all when our dogs reach a ripe old age without succumbing to some horrible,diet related disease.

>This is why i have always done my best to give them the most healthiest,species appropriate diet i can from day 1

It might lead newbies to assume that you are qualified in this area.  Is this the case?

Ktee

>I'm sure you're dog is healthy,and i don't doubt you,but I've met dogs dying of cancer with soft and shiny coats.

This is scaremongering at best because the causes of cancer are multi-dimensional.  There might be a genetic link or there might even be a link to the raw foods given because of the feed/drugs given to livestock or even a combination of factors.  Unless of course, you have the scientific statistics to back up your inferences that certain foods cause cancers. I'd be very interested to see them.

I'm not saying that every food is ideal for every dog, but this doesn't mean that dogs are definitely going to be mortally harmed by certain foods in the way you are suggesting.

i agree cherylS. i work with oncology vets, (work in a large referal practice in scotland) and i have asked them their opinions on why dogs get cancer. their answer is that simply, they dont always know. theres no proof as yet that it is caused by foods, and most hold the belief it is genetic, certainly we see certain breeds of dogs time and time again with lymphoma etc, and other breeds of dog have never been seen my the onc vets. the other factor is sometimes just bad luck. same with people. my boyfriends cousin died at 4 from leukemia, im sure it was nothing to do with her diet, and no one else in family has ever had a cancer of any form, just appears to have been a case of severe bad luck. sometimes, we're pre dispositioned to suffer from an illness, no matter what we try to do to prevent it.

CherylS if you take advantage of the search function here you will see that we have been through this before,you have asked the very same questions and i have answered them,remember? :)

Ktee, I do not need to use the search function to remind me of what was said.

>CherylS if you take advantage of the search function here you will see that we have been through this before,you have asked the very same questions and i have answered them,remember?

Apparently you can't search back very far anymore!

IMO your posts infer that you are a qualified expert and if most of your information comes from the internet you cannot claim to be so.

>" Ktee   Date 11.04.08 13:19 GMT My dogs favourite thing is the chicken breast bone cartilage thingy.Close second is Baked Liver,roast chicken,KFC,salami sticks,cocktail franks and black pudding.
They wont eat any fruit or veg at all  ~Kate~"<

Do you consider KFC healthy food for your family, then????

Doesn't KFC have onions in the coating? 

>>" Ktee   Date 11.04.08 13:19 GMT My dogs favourite thing is the chicken breast bone cartilage thingy.Close second is Baked Liver,roast chicken,KFC,salami sticks,cocktail franks and black pudding.

They wont eat any fruit or veg at all  ~Kate~"<

I'm fairly sure that the amounts of fat, nitrates and salt in salami sticks and cocktail franks alone would be just about the last thing you would want to feed a dog if you claim to feed only healthy, species appropriate foods ;)   and heaven knows what they put into the coatings of KFC?

Wouldn't buy them for my family and certainly wouldn't buy them for my dogs ;)

TBF to Ktee, the reference to KFC etc was on the "What food gets your dog excited...... " thread and not under any diet or ingredients pros/con topic! 

FTR my dogs get excited by chocolate, ice cream, cheesecake, cheese & onion crisps, meringues drizzles in toffee sauce, macaroon bars, (yada yada yada - you get my drift :-D ) it doesn't mean any of the foregoing are part of their diet

Right Ladies (and Gents?) we are way of topic here so think this thread may have run its course. :)