I can see where Brainless is coming from, Fred's Mum. It might be worth giving your breeder a ring to let her know how the pup is.

My girls breeder rarely actually rings me, it is usually me who does the ringing, but she is always really pleased to hear from me. She even came to see my litter when they were about 5 weeks old, meaning a 2 hour journey for her.

it's hard as a breeder to know how much contact people want to have. I agree emailing/texting is easier, as then people are not put on the spot if I contact them. I am suprised though in that the people I thought would be in touch most, aren't, and others are. I've recently invited myself to see one pup in April, as we drop Mum off to her breeder while we go on holiday, and she lives in the next village to the pup. I felt awful doing it, but would love to see him. I did it by email, saying I completely understood if it wasnt' Ok, and that I felt a bit cheaky for asking. They replied saying I was more than welcome, and it'd be lovely to see me again.

Give your breeder a call, what's the worst that can happen? It is so lovely for me to be able to share the brilliant things about our girl with someone who loves her almost as much as we do.

Both my breeder (now sadly deceased) and the owner of the sire (thankfully still with us) became close friends and my mentors, but neither contacted me until I started contacting them.

> But the breeder should be the expert on the dogs, the Vet is not.

I agree, particularly those breeders on here, but if you look at the country as a whole, far more dogs come from pet/commercial/back yard breeders than reputable breeders, at least in the popular breeds, and therefore numerically in the dog population across the UK - realistically, good breeders are sady a minority, which means that vets may be the first people a new puppy owner comes into contact with any valid advice.  Although I don't agree with it, I can understand why vets do promote neutering - I just wish they talked to puppy owners about the practicality of having an entire dog/bitch, explain seasons and advice about when and where they can safely take them out during seasons.

> Me too, Brainless - and from the website point of view, what a waste of space.

Was speaking to the online reg. department a few weeks ago, and was told that they are in dicscussions at the moment about a facility to at least note and list sperately if not remove deceased dogs.  Also a possible system to enable breeders to transfer the pups into new owners names, which sounds like a great idea to me.  Hope it comes off.

Also, referring to the posts concerning the legal standing of various documents as proof of ownership in the case  of litigation, it needs bearing in mind that most of these scenarios woudl take place in County Court, where precedent  is not set, therefore what happens in one case has no bearing on how another judge may find.
bye
Gwen

I see where you're all coming from about the breeder not wanting to be too interfering but i seriously would have thought that she would have made contact (she had my number and e mail address) to see that the pup had settled in and to check it was all going OK. She may not have been in touch after that but would have expected that first contact. I've not bred but from what you guys say about the time and effort you spend raising pups im surprised she could just "let go" and be so distanced after a hard 7 weeks of doing ewverything for the puppies
I would contct her but i think whats the point??? I have learnt lots of lessons and would definately ask different questions and do things differently next time.

>I would contct her but i think whats the point???

How difficult would it be to send a quick email saying how happy you are with the puppy (you are, aren't you?) and tell her how well he's doing? You've got nothing to lose, and possibly a lot to gain.

I would value others opinions but woud 9 times out of 10 go with the pro.
  Your freind is not a good example to compare a breeder to.  A illness experience by one is not the same as expereince of doing something 10-50 times ..

Not all breeders choose to ring up buyer. I don't . I ask them to give me a call in a couple of days to let me know how the pup has settled but to phone me anytime from that moment on if they need advice on anything.  I always offer to give them a quick free trim in a couple of months also .  Not that I have had loads of pups to sell but some you will hear from and others you won't.  I would say the biggest % are people who have had the breed before or a 2nd dog is my biggest buyer.

I don't think any of them would think I don't care, quite the opposite but I don't call them up. Maybe if I hadn't heard from one in particular at all I may.

It is courtious as a buyer just to let them know the pup is ok :-)

im surprised she could just "let go" and be so distanced after a hard 7 weeks of doing ewverything for the puppies
  That's a bit hard I think.     How do you know she " just let go"  and how do you know she doesn't think of the little ones constantly. 

Relationships with your breeder can often continue how you choose them to :-)

How odd I have had the total opposite experience & mine current two mug people when they call, they both come for cuddles & stroking & only move when I make them. None of the many neutered toms I have had has ever sprayed.

Maybe you've not met as many. :) As a non-pedigree (moggy) judge (and owner for the past past 30 years) and pedigree breeder, also former vet nurse and having worked in a cattery, I fully agree that most mogs are far worse tempered than pedigrees -although, obviously, temperament varies between breeds.

Sexes have nothing much to do with spraying, it's almost always stress related and as such you can easily have a spayed female spraying or a neutered male, just as entire ones. None of my stud boys spray. I've only ever had neutered cats spray.

Not all breeders choose to ring up buyer. I don't . I ask them to give me a call in a couple of days to let me know how the pup has settled but to phone me anytime from that moment on if they need advice on anything.

I do as well. Only if they HAVEN'T got in touch within a week will I phone or e-mail them. After that I let the buyer dictate. Some are happy to keep in touch all the time, on a weekly or monthly basis. Those I obviously always reply to if they email me. Others never get in touch, but I send everyone a sort of newsletter and a card every Christmas and ask for updates. Sadly you can't force people to get in touch, but you can show you will take an interest.

Of course, much the same goes for breeders as for buyers. I keep in touch regularly with those that get back to me if I contact them, but I give up on those that never bother replying to letters or e-mails.

One of my puppy owners refuses to have contact with me, i rang them just over a week after he went to see how he was getting on everything was fine, he was getting along with the children fine and his toilet training was going well and he would send the photos he took over the weekend the next day.

Few days later i got a txt from his girlfriend saying that they wish to have no more contact with me as the dog is no longer my concern, if that i didnt trust them i shouldnt breed dogs and sell them, they will not send any pictures of him and if i keep ''nagging'' they will take appropriate action!!!!!!

He was the nicest man on the planet but i think he has a pyschobitch for a girlfriend, i couldnt believe it and i was gobsmacked. He was one of the biggest boys in the litter and i would have loved to see how he progressed, such a shame. But they have lost my knowledge and advice, as well as a friend.

There choice

Louise

Actually im not totally happy wth my dog. Obviously i love him to bits, but if i ever got another one i would be alot more selective with where i got a dog. I think Fred was not bred brilliantly and the breeder knew full well he was ill when she gave him to me. We had a lot of problems in the first few weeks (could have lost him) and the same problems still blight him now which is a great shame. Luckily,he is a lovely dog because of the way he's been brought up he's got a wonderful temperment and is very loving, but i feel sorry for him for what he went through when he was younger.

>Maybe you've not met as many

Of course I can't have I've been helping a cat rescue for the past 40 odd years(not CPL)& have never judged cats, but have shown my moggies & my cats always do well possibly because I have had them way too young(all rescues of one sort or another)& they have been well handled & socialised from being young. I had my first cat at the same time I got my first dog in 1958, a stray who adopted my young puppy & ended up moving in. I've tamed feral cats & kittens(T Touch is brilliant for this)& got them forever homes.

I think the vets, catteries & shows can be very stressful for any cat who is a "normal"cat ie used to going outside & being free to do the things cats naturally do, pedigree cats do tend to be indoor cats & shown & vetted from a young age so making them more relaxed about vets, show. They are often kept in what I call "home"catteries, ie they have access to the outside world, but are restricted by have meshed runs etc so are used to being confined.

Never had a single neutered cat that has sprayed so mine can't ever have been stressed.

As I type I had just had to remove Reg from the keyboard & then my knee where he loves to be all the time if he could.

When I did the chip course the lady who stayed with the cats whilst we were doing the theory bit told me that all the pedigrees had been yowling & making a fuss generally, whilst my two(the only moggies)had purred contently all the time. Does purring indicate stress as well ? as my moggies should have been stressed out shouldn't they ?

I've taught Reg to touch & he does this to ask for food or just a cuddle & stroking, he knows to touch differently for each thing I have taught him & he always comes immediately he is called because I use treats to teach him, Jaq is the same, she takes a little longer because she is usually off mouse watching in the woodland behind the garden

Wow moonmaiden :-)  Didn't realise you could train cats like that. That's amazing.
We've always had rescue moggies, think they are wonderful (apart from our present "semi feral" cat who is a bit vicious) and would definatly have a mog rather than a pedigree cat. :-)

> Didn't realise you could train cats like that. That's amazing.

LOLOL it's quite easy as cats are probably more focused on food than dogs in many ways, you simply reward & give a command word whenever the cat touches you & they soon learn. doing cat recalls is also fairly easy, I just fed them chicken or other treats everytime I called them & they came in straightaway, even when Jaq took herself up on to a neighbours roof & forgot hold to get down, the promise of "Chicken"& a dish of warm chicken on top of the microwave with the smell drifting across to Jaq, soon had her coming down & in, mind you I also had to feed Reg as he had also come in ;-) ever the thinking cat Reg :)

I would love to try it bu as i said our cat really isnt that nice co i dont think i'll be attempting it.
Now you mention all our previous cats have been quite food orientated. One of them would do anything to lick out the container of a creme caramel!!!!!

Actually im not totally happy wth my dog. Obviously i love him to bits, but if i ever got another one i would be alot more selective with where i got a dog. I think Fred was not bred brilliantly and the breeder knew full well he was ill when she gave him to me. We had a lot of problems in the first few weeks (could have lost him) and the same problems still blight him now which is a great shame. Luckily,he is a lovely dog because of the way he's been brought up he's got a wonderful temperment and is very loving, but i feel sorry for him for what he went through when he was younger

These are the reasons why it is so important to do your homework first.   A huge % of the first time puppy buying population do the same thing though and often learn from their mistakes. :-)

Our family have always had poodles so not first time buyer. The only difference was this time it was my money.
I visited several breeders and did lots of homework even though i knew all about the breed and what they were like. To be honest i coudnt do any more.
My breeder seemed very good right up until the point when i picked up the pup.After that things went from bad to worse.
It could have happened to anyone no matter what their experiance.

I visited several breeders and did lots of homework even though i knew all about the breed and what they were like. To be honest i coudnt do any more.


Hmm I took and based my comments on your previous post sorry if you didn't mean what it reads.

You said "but if i ever got another one i would be alot more selective with where i got a dog. I think Fred was not bred brilliantly and the breeder knew full well he was ill when she gave him to me"

To me that sounds like you think you could have done more ;-)    You said he wasn't brilliantly bred and that you would be more selective where you got a dog.

Was the breeder a member of the breed club?  did you seek references for her?  these are always worthwhile checks. 

If it was a reputable breeder and the puppy was sick they would have taken him back. Anyone I know would have to be honest.

We had a Cat in the days of the Arthur adverts, where the white cat ate off it's paw.

My Dad was convinced he could teach our new cat the same.  He opened a tin of cat food only part way and put the cats paw into it, and she scooped it out, for which she then got food in her dish.  Within a few weeks she ate all her cat food with her paw, even though she didn't need to..

Yes breeder was part of the breed club. What i mean is next time i would ask different questions. i'll admit i did contradict myself a little bit but it's hard to write it down. if i was talking to you it would make perfect sense :-)
Sorry but theres no way i would have taken him back. He wasn't a top i bought that i didn't like when i got it home. The minute i walked away with him he was my responsibilty and whatever happened (good or bad) i had to deal with it.

As the breeder was a memeber of a breed club, have you contacted the club to voice your concerns?

Cats are so clever! I trained mine and he comes to the whistle along with Polo.  I think its how you bring them up and what temperaments their parents had; I had mine since five weeks old and they're very people orienteted and happy to have hugs, be dressed up, carried by kids, whatever. Their mum was a lovely cat.
I think you're not supposed to mate brown poodles to white, incase the liver pigment shows up in future generations of whites. 
Freddie is lovely of course you wouldn't return him! How is he finding the new clip, Polo's very happy short. :-)

He wasn't a top i bought that i didn't like when i got it home. The minute i walked away with him he was my responsibilty and whatever happened (good or bad) i had to deal with it.

We each have to make the decision that is right for us at the time..

Sometimes the hardest decisions in life are the best ones for the future of the breed sadly. If you don't return poorly bred puppies then some unreputable breeders continually churn them out.  The next person possibly behind you will also get similar.

I know that is easier said that done and sounds hard but it is the only way to stop them sadly.

I do honestly hope everything does come together for you and the puppy and that the problems end up in the past. :-)

I've never heard that before about mating brown to white-i had no idea. I'm worried now :-(
What kind of problems would he have with that?

He likes his short clip. he seems to be alot more comfortable then he when he lots of fur to be groomed.

none from the point of view of being a pet, but white poodles are supposed to have black pigment (eye rims anus etc) and of course Browns have Liver pigment, which you don't want to have on white pups.

Not sure though how the genetiss work in white poodles as in black and rust and brown and rust dobes theya re mated together and born in the smae litters, but I ahve never met a black and rust dobe with liver pigment????

Oh no dont worry it wouldn't affect his health. Yes Brainless I keep wondering that because people made browns to blacks and thats fine. Off to do some research...