It also depends on the area that you live in and wether there is an infection outbreak or virus prevelent there. This information, you can get from your local vets surgery. If the pup has had the first lot of jabs it should be safe and it would be very unusual for it to become infected after them anyway.

Consider our own human babies, they are not isolated from birth and pre jabs either.

TBH all I know is, we have always had our pups out and about early and off lead and that we have always managed to raise well ajusted and confident outgoing dogs, without to much effort, who love and enjoy their lives.
It's a case of pros, cons and choices I guess and I can only speak for myself and my family. We would rather take the so called risk of infection, than be lumbered with a snotty, nasty, frightened dog for the rest of it's miserable life.

And isn't it strange, now there is so much fuss about keeping puppies in isolation at home for months on end, that there seems to be a lot more behavour problems than ever known before too? Or maybe we should be thinking it's now the norm and expect it?

Our girl Mitz ( a SBT) was not let out on the ground until she had both sets of jabs and then we waitied 2 weeks after that on the vets advice.

She is a well rounded, good mannered SBT, she came top in her obedience class out of 10 dogs, and she is the most people and dog friendly dog on the park where I walk her, so your theory isnt correct for our girl, she is the best tempered dog I have seen in a long time and she wasnt walked more then 10 mins a day till she was 6 months old , not let off lead to roam till she was 8 months old and that was pavement walks, everywhere else she was carried too while she was a puppy. so my girl isnt one of the miserable dogs you desribe at all and she was trained and raised the 'proper' way as advised by vets which you object too!

Each to theyre own I guess! :) But with our next puppy we will use the same methods as well as Mitz is a top dog and she wasnt isolated at all!

I'm with spiritulist on this one,i take my pups out off lead the day i get them home,they've usually only had the one Jab by then.

> If a dog is not safe for whatever the reason, it should be under strict control by the owner. If it doesn't like other loose running and having lots of fun and sociable dogs, then take it somewhere else. I'm sick of these people who insist on taking their problem to a local walk where they know they'll meet loads of off lead and boisterous dogs, enjoying themselves and expect those dogs owners to grab their sociable dog and put it on it's leads, because THEY have a problem.

I agree with what you're saying - to an extent.  If a dog is really bad, then certainly work on its issues elsewhere until it's a bit better.

But, if an owner is attempting to rehabilitate an aggressive dog - as I am with my Soli - there is a time when we do need to go to more busy places to move the progression up a gear.  Street-walking and quiet fields with the odd dog only work for so long; the same is true, although it is valuable, of behaviourists with access to well-behaved, calm stooge dogs.  At some stage the dog will come into contact with loose dogs that aren't well behaved, and TBH I think the only we we can teach our dogs to cope with that is by exposure.  From a distance to start with, absolutely - I'd consider myself a right muppet if I'd gone straight into my local park on a Saturday afternoon in summer if I'd only just started working with Soli, it'd be a complete disaster and owners would learn very qiuckly to keep away, which wouldn't help at all.  But now she's a great deal better, going to the park is a helpful thing - I can teach her how to behave around uncontrolled dogs and she can sometimes cope with them meeting her.  It's a strategy that's worked well for her - a while back she was able to walk through the park and meet and greet three separate dogs that all ran straight up to her, no sign of owners, and away again, without doing anything more than looking a bit unsure.  If I'd kept her to street walks and quiet walks from the day she came home up until now, the chances are very highg that she'd be nowhere near as good as she is.  It's a balancing act.

Oh, and re. the comment about socialising before the second jab - I'm an 'err on the side of caution' type.  There's still time to socialise after the second jab; get the pup into a well-run puppy class before it, and if possible, have it meet known dogs (know to be vaccinated).  I did this with both Remy and Opi - and they are both very well socialised dogs, to the point that at the moment, the little sods are ignoring the recall to go and play!  And Remy didn't get to go out on the floor until he was 13/14 weeks as he reacted to his first shot and the whole course was set back by a fortnight.

Rach85,
So there is a proper way then and everyone who has not followed their vets advice(who of course learnt it all), has not done the proper thing for their pup and therefore, they are the ones with problems? Just curious.

Not what I said at all.

What im saying is that you are very set against keeping puppy on lead and doing it the 'proper' way as told by vets, youre choice.

So why cant people who do the opposite to what you think is right, have the same rights as you?
Like just said you need to socialise a dog yes, but safly for the pup and anyone else around it.

There is no proper way just what you have been taught and believe to be right, and if your dog grows into a well mannered dog then what the heck does it matter what you did as long as the end result is a superb dog and it was kept safe from infection and attacks etc?

I personally would never do it your way as I believe pups are vunrable and need to be looked after not left to fend for them selves!

but again, thats just me! ;)

I get a bit confused with the vaccination thing

If pups can't have their vaccinations unitl a certain age due to already having immunities from their mum why wouldn't these immunities cover them for being out and about for socialisation reasons? I know vets recommend that they don't go out until after their 2nd injection but surely they will have some immunity from their dam?

I don't think people who have dog aggressive dogs should have to avoid places where other dog walkers are as long as their dogs are under control and, if necessary, muzzled. It isn't possible to try and work through a problem if you constantly avoid situations which are difficult.

If I see a dog coming towards me who is on lead then I put my dogs on lead also as I don't know why the other dog is not off lead and, to my mind, it is good manners to make sure my dog does not interfere with others unless invited to do so. My dogs are both very sociable but I am well aware that not all other dogs are and do not want to take the risk of upsetting either my dogs or somebody else's dog.

I live fairly close to a national rescue and often come across dogs from there who have not had the best start in life. If I let my dogs run up to dogs on lead I could be making it very hard for someone who has taken on a dog with issues and I fully respect that all dogs need exercise and people are entitled to walk their dogs in the areas that I do.

It just takes a bit of cooperation from all concerned to ensure that everyone is able to exercise their dogs.

>If pups can't have their vaccinations unitl a certain age due to already having immunities from their mum why wouldn't these immunities cover them for being out and about for socialisation reasons? I know vets recommend that they don't go out until after their 2nd injection but surely they will have some immunity from their dam?

I agree, it's very confusing! The thing to remember is that the maternal immunity fades as the pup ages, and if the vaccine is given while there's still a high level of maternal antibodies then it simply won't work 'take'; you'll think the pup's protected but in fact it isn't.

I think the question is ''Why risk your puppies life or health??''

I would never risk any puppies health by taking them out before theyre 2nd set of jabs, even if my area was cleaned and sanitised everyday I wouldnt chance it, imagine you dont listen to the guidelines and your pup falls ill and then dies or has life long problems due to catching an infection, you will know you are responsible for that. For me that would be so detrimantal to my well being and I would be racked with guilt all the time.
Or if the puppy is attacked by another dog while its off lead so young and you cant catch it to help it as its too small and nimble, all things to he=ard to think about! :(

Mitz didnt suffer at all from keeping her in those tiny 2 extra weeks for safty reasons and I wouldnt do it any other way with our new boy were getting either! :)

I've often pondered this one; if the first vaccine is less likely to 'take' because of the maternal antibodies, then why do pups have two shots?  Why not just wait until, say 10 or 11 weeks to do a single shot?

And don't get me started on restarting adults - my experie3nce with Opi this year with that has soured me somewhat!  Although, she did have a lovely holiday in Kent :D Gave me an excuse to visit a beautiful country park and skim stones, it was perfect.  But I'd still rather not have had to restart her - unnecessary IMO.

I do keep wondering this myself too...
Mainly because i my home country puppies get their first jab at 12 weeks and second at 16weeks!
We get told they are covered by the mothers antibodies untill then and any earlier jab might not take.
Then I came to UK and here puppies get vaccined so much earlier!!

I must say most people do take their puppies out and about before they get their jabs as you could miss a lot of valuable socialising time if you waited untill 13-14 weeks.
Obviously you should use common sense in where you take your puppy but I have always been told by vets it is even ok for a puppy to meet other dogs etc. the risk is pretty minimal if the dam was vaccined properly.

I have to say I would not think they have more cases of un-vaccined pups getting ill than there is in UK even though they get their jabs so much later and generally do get let on the floor and even meet other dogs...
There is always a risk of course, but I believe it to be quite minimal, so I have been told.

Well said Harley. 

Quite frankly I am fed of those people who own dogs and have no control over them, their dogs may have the most wonderful temperament but that doesnt mean that my dogs want them in their faces or being danced around whilst their owner is on the other side of the park/field.  If you have no control then your dog should be on a long line.

Surely in society today we should all appreciate other people's situations, a dog could be aggresive through no fault of its own and providing the owner is taking appropriate steps I dont see the problem.  If I see a dog coming towards me that is being deliberately kept on the lead mine will be put on a lead.

I think you got it there

If you put your dog on lead while approcahing someone with a loose dog, they should return the favour, but they dont and when theyre dog comes running up other peoplls who is one lead is creates havoc!

Its a two way street leashing dogs before they meet.

Ah but most canine meetings are far better off lead, the lead causes the problem.  Also anxious owners make for anxious dogs.

When I go to the park I expect that people who take  their dogs where they know there will/may be lots of loose dogs of varying levels of training, that they are going to be taking average sociable dogs.  Maybe not perfectly trained dogs, but ones that can cope with the usual meet and greet of social intercourse.

I would expect anyone with dog aggressive or fearful dogs not to walk them there, but to keep to road walking, or use private land until they had sorted out the dogs issues, as after all letting them off lead is not going to be possible, and being on lead where others are off must be very frustrating/scary.

Dogs who are having their socialisation issues dealt with should not be taken to places where they will meet other dogs in uncontrolled circumstances as it will only undermine their training anyway.

I would not expect to have to recall my dogs every time a dog hoves into view, (after all there will often be trees in the way etc).  To be honest I wouldn't expect those dogs to be on lead in an off lead area unless their recall was really poor. 

I would expect said dogs and mine if they notice each other to greet briefly and carry on about their business, if a youngster was rude an adult to tick them off with no great scene.  If young and so inclined a short game may ensue but which time their owners and I would have also greeted each other and exchanged pleasantries and either decided to walk on together if the dogs were having fun or to call our respective dogs attentions to us and go off on our way.

The idea of going with my dogs having to scan the horizon for every dog and constantly calling them back to me would completely spoil what should be a relaxing walk for all of us.

The place for learning socialisation and training is the training class and mixing with the dog with dogs of friends and family in controlled situations.

My friend has a doberman bitch who despite proper socialisation as a puppy progressively became more and more fear aggressive with age, even though she was attending classes, going for walks and shows.  She started getting more and more stressed in crowds and around dogs and people outside her home environment, and had the guts to do something about it, act up.  We think it started as a hormonal issue, but by Post Graduate it became apparent she could not be shown as ti was too stressful for her and her .  the distance she could cope with other canines got larger and larger, and eventually people would scare her too.

She simply is not walked where she can meet other dogs or scare humans.  She is lead Road walked on a muzzle in the evenings on quiet roads.  She has obviously got a mental issue, and is practically agoraphobic.  Never ever had an unpleasant experience with other dogs etc, and will even lunge and bark at me and mien with who she is absolutely fine at home.

When it became apparent there was no practical cure for her phobias, they chose to manage her.  She obviously needs a walk each day (if they had land of their own then she need never leave her own property which she would prefer.

At home she is the sweetest most sociable reliable obedient loving creature going, and happy, if this wasn't so she would have been PTS long ago.

I don't think it is fair that every dog should have to be 100% reliable just so the owner of a dog with problems could walk their dogs, when the average majority of semi trained dogs can get on OK and enjoy their walks fine.

That is true Brainless!!

I just got a right telling off from another forum after saying I let my girl off lead to say hello, I was called unresponsible, idiotic all sorts and our girl is very very well trainned and I have perfect recall! (She also has the over excitement if meeting on lead like you describe, off lead meetings is much more calm if I can see the dog is well behaved and see it listens to its owner then they can meet)

Why cant some people undrstand that some dogs are so well trainined they can be let off and called back in good time of seeing other dogs??
Its so frustrating.

The thing is most dogs don't even need perfect training or recall to get on fine around other dogs.  they will get told off by the older ones and will learn their canine manners.  We cause the issues by interfering too much and not allowing natural interaction.

Not that I would.advocate a return to latchkey dogs, but when the village dogs were free to go around doing their own thing the local dogs didn't get into huge fights, they would. meet up have a game etc.

In Poland to this day in the country dogs are basically allowed to do their own thing, there aren't many cars on the dirt roads in some of these country areas, and people expect their dogs to wander about pretty much like the chickens and cats do.

Of course I abhor the unplanned litters of pups that are reared or drowned etc.

Have you noticed how mellow and well behaved the tramps dogs are in town.  I see these dogs curled up in shop doorway or on the pedestrian precinct while their owners are in a shop or doing what they do.  Not only don't they squabble with each other, but they are also very good around people and seem to be attached to their owner on an invisible lead.

The feral stray dogs many of us see on holiday in Greece etc, none seem to have issues with each other either, and fighting among the males will have been low key and their place in society sorted long since.

Once again, so true!

I dont see how I can be a bad owner when I take my dog to obedience classes, she is so well mannered and like you say has been told the ways of life by other dogs as like you said its the way they have learned from a puppy!

I too dont agree they should be left to roam in Britain, way too many cars.

The dogs in town with homeless people or alone are some of the best behaved around! You see people walking their dogs through town and theyre pulling, jumping up etc, but these are so chilled, so I know exactly what you mean.

No of course we shouldn't have lose dogs.  I used that to point out that it is the artificial way we keep our dogs often with little opportunity to just be dogs, and interfering too much that actually causes us to have the problems with them.

Wish more people thought like that Brainless, world would be an easier, nice place to walk our dogs.

Do you think it's also the case that dangerous dogs weren't kept alive to perpetuate the aggression? Very aggressive dogs that damaged people and other dogs would have been put down. Now I see so many dogs that have no social skills and no bite inhibition. They are bullies who chase after dogs just to attack them. We have 4 that walk in the great open fields where we walk and they will just run a dog down to attack it if they see it. Their owners all walk these dogs without muzzles and I've seen their victims. One poor bloodhound bitch was so severly traumatized after being attacked by one pair (littermates, dogs, black Dobie crosses) that now black dogs send her into a panic. One look at the newfies we were with and she hid in the trees and wouldn't move for love nor money. Just stood there trembling in complete terror. The newfies are the most laid back gentle boys - no threat at all. She's just ruined because those people take their aggressive dogs out off lead. :( Hopefully she won't become fear aggressive herself now but she's a good candidate thanks to them.

Hello Tigger

Really sympathise with you reading your post, you are making such an effort with this boy (sure he isnt a beast really) .

Think you are better taking him out on his own if he is a handful at least then you can pull him away without having your others to deal with too, I cant see you were doing anything wrong when this fools dog ran up to yours, you had yours on a lead minding your own business , it was the other owner at fault for not having their dog under control whether he is friendly or not!

I get really cross when walking my boys , if mine are off the lead then thats fine when others come running up, but if they are on the lead and other owners make no attempt to call back their dogs it really annoys me, it is respect to get your dog on the lead when someone else is approaching with theirs on the lead.
I dont agree with Nikita that you shouldnt take him to public places, there is no problem if other peoples dogs are under control too.

None of this helps I know as you still have a problem , have you tried a citronella collar, the remote one where you press the button and it squirts the dog ? Ive used one of these on mine as he buggars off when he likes and comes back on his own terms when we are at home on the farm, I only used it twice and he started behaving himself. Maybe worth a go

Also what about renting a small paddock ? Or even just asking a local farmer (presuming you live somewhere rural/semi rural) if you can use one of his fields to exercise your dogs on?  Most farmers are agreeable to anything if it involves money! they dont usually charge a lot.
You could then exercise them all here, then pop your naughty boy into the car and go a long walk with the others.

I too wouldnt have him PTS , I can see the point some of the posters on here are making as you dont want your other dogs losing out due to naughty boys bad behaviour, but you love him and are prepared to put the work in, putting him to sleep is the easy way out in my opinion.
Awful situation and I wish you all the best 

Thanks Rupert and Nikita :)

I do already walk in farmers fields, I live in Scotland so you don't have to pay to walk in a field, we have the right to roam ;)  There are several fields I use but my favourite one has livestock at the moment.

The place where this incident took place is such a lovely walk - it's a huge open space with various paths criss crossing it and little patches of trees, bushes, streams etc. I love it because you can walk for miles there, easily spending 4 hours or more and its so big it's easy to avoid other people and dogs. I know some people would say I shouldn't take my boy there, I wouldn't consider taking him down the country park to to our local park where tonnes of dogs walk but I can go for a week at this place and never see anyone. The last incident has dented my confidence though, the lab ran so far to see them - usually if I see someone in the distance I can just walk the other way and it's all fine. The reason I still want to go there is that all 4 dogs have such a good time there, beastly boy loves it and is so happy running through the grass, round the bushes, through streams and sniffing around - it's much more enriching for him than a plain grass field. However as the last incident shows it's a risk - I just had to decide if it is a justifiable risk? I am confident I'll always see someone before he does, so he'll never meet anything off lead, and even if he did he's muzzled. My concern is meeting another unusually dim dog that comes up to him on lead and allows itself to be dunted or stood on, or that he pulls me over and breaks my leg or something. I've thought very seriously about it, and read everyones replies and decided to carry on as before, still walking in the same area but just being very vigilant :)

I didn't see the photos so not sure how "trainable" he is, but if he is definitely not fearful (how was this assessed? as some fearful dogs can put on an impressive display) have you tried some advanced training with him? for example, training "with me" or "watch" to the exclusion of distractions? It would certainly help with control, imagine if you could get to the stage where he would look at you rather than lunge :)

It can be done with reward based methods, too - but needs alot of work!!

Good luck!

Lindsay
x

I can empathise with that - it's difficult to decide if it's worth it sometimes.  Not so long ago I was walking Soli in the woods, along the main pathways, and I let her off; the trail starts along the first main footpath then divides off into a circular route, and at that point it's rare to meet other dogs.  We were coming along towards the main path again, and I decided it was time to call her back - but waited just a few seconds too long.  She caught sight of a man with two collies and a border terrier, and started running towards them.

I'm still certain she wasn't actually going to do anything to them - no hackles, and not running very fast (sure signs of a charge in progress :rolleyes:) but unfortunately the terrier thought it would be a good idea to charge her instead.  Can't say I blame it really!  But she immediately changed and charged at them, and I was running after to her to grab her (nothing will get her back at this point).  I apologised profusely but the bloke wasn't too worried - something about "teaching the little one not to run towards strange dogs" :rolleyes:) but I was mortified.  And Soli tried again, and got nipped by one of the collies - that stopped her in her tracks.  I'm very lucky - it's all front with her, and if another dog does tell her off it deflates her instantly and she stops trying to be 'hard' :p

But it did dent my confidence for some time, and I'm still wary of letting her off anywhere on that route now.  She needs her running of course, but at least we have the back routes to go on and if we do meet dogs there, she's normally quite good with them.

When did the incident happen?  I wonder if it's worth mentally making a note and trying to go another time, or avoiding the spot it happened at the time it did.  I learned very quickly back in spring when the best time to walk the main routes were; I know now, when it's light early, that if I get to the woods before half 6 I can get the dogs along the main trail, round the route and back without meeting the first walker (a wonderfully tolerant man with two labs!); I also know when he's likely to be walking along different trails so if I'm running late I can still avoid him.  It's a godsend in summer.

Your concern is:  that he pulls me over and breaks my leg or something.

If he can pull you over and break your leg I guess then it is possible for him to be able to get away from you.  What then about the carnage (muzzled or not) and terror that he may reek on other dogs and people? Sorry, but if you can not physically guarantee control of this dog then he should not be walked in places where you may encounter others.

I admire your dedication and determination to do the best for 'Mr Beast' - many would have given up long ago.  However, I think you seriously need to consider purchasing and securely fencing some land and putting up appropriate notices to keep other people out in order to be able to give 'Mr Beast' the freedom you wish him to have.  Otherwise, I think you are running out of options and it will only be a matter of time before your ticking bomb explodes with some potentially lethal consequences.  If you are unable to come up with a safe, secure alternative, I hope you have the courage to step up to your responsibilities.

Gunner - he never has pulled me over, I can hold all four dogs on the lead fine, my post refered to the possibility of a freak accident...say the ground was slippy and I fell in a hole.

Buying, fencing and putting notices up on a piece of land does not guarantee you will have sole access to it here unfortunately, due to the right to roam legislation. Everyone has the right to walk in any field...even if it has livestock or crops in it (stay round the edge). Peopel have been taken to court for putting high fences round their own property and not alowing walkers in.

Hiya Tigger
He may well have never pulled you over YET.  However, you yourself state that it is YOUR concern that he pulls you over and breaks your leg. So, the possibility has obviously occured to you.  Yes, it may need a  freak accident for this to occur,  but it is an accident waiting to happen.  With most other dogs it would not be an issue - with yours the consequences could be dire.  You have to anticipate the unanticipated and if you can't safely and legally set aside your own land to exercise the Mr Beast dog on, then (in my opinion) the only options you have are a) to keep muzzled and on leash/long line and walk on own or unfortunately to pts.

You say in your original post that MR Beast is 50kg of rippling muscle;  in the post above you say that you can hold all four dogs safely on the leash.  I don't know if all four are the same breed or if you are male or female or what your size/build is, but I think most people would struggle to hold four dogs in a stressful situation with one at 50kg kicking off.  I know I couldn't.

Yes, I know my post sounds hard.  However, I am detached emotionally and have deliberately not looked at your photos as I know the heart-tugging effect that a pair of brown eyes can have.  You have my sympathy and I take my hat off to you for the work and effort todate, however, you have to think of others and their dogs and not just Mr Beast.  Sorry, but could you live with yourself if someone else's dog was killed, badly injured and/or traumatised for life?  Are you happy that someone should have to pay that sort of price just for you to keep Mr Beast?

PS  Is it a possibility that you could move out of Scotland away from the right to roam areas?

The place where this incident took place is such a lovely walk - it's a huge open space with various paths criss crossing it and little patches of trees, bushes, streams etc. I love it because you can walk for miles there, easily spending 4 hours or more and its so big it's easy to avoid other people and dogs. I know some people would say I shouldn't take my boy there, I wouldn't consider taking him down the country park to to our local park where tonnes of dogs walk but I can go for a week at this place and never see anyone. The last incident has dented my confidence though, the lab ran so far to see them
oh right... I just saw this. Yiu are lucky to live in such a spacious and beautiful location!  If you keep on with this and there is no need for the dog to mix with other dogs in its life then just  muzzle the dogs when you are out in public on and off lead.  When they are on lead maybe use some walking aids to reduce their pulling strength. I can't see the problem really if you are so issolated. If you take the odd small safety steps the odds are you will have many uneventful walks. And keep your mobile phone on you just in case you do get pulled over and break something and need air ambulance!  ;)

The benefit of isolated places is they are great places for people to walk dogs who have issues because they think like you... they can get away with most of the walks without any problems simply because they do not encounter many other dogs or people.   However the ones you meet are more likely to be unsocialised because they do not meet enough other dogs. So of course a young dog may well get excited and want to bounce. Especially a young  lab!  it is what young dogs do.   The youngsters they  can be especially attracted to dominant or aggressive dogs..maybe it confuses or excites them..they feel they should be acknowledging or appeasing the dominant dog in some way but don't know how... like a child who is being told off by their head teacher but is stressed so laughs or acts inappropriately in some way.

I think it is quite normal for many young pet dogs to take an interest in their own kind. . Have any of us ever had a dog who didn't sometimes make a mistake or do we all have perfectly pre-programmed  robotic dogs?  

I live in a city... I meet maybe 25 -50 dogs a day on average depending on the weather, half will be strangers. On average at least 5 dogs a day will run up to mine and bounce on them or run round them or try to join in our games steal the ball etc.  Even when I am training stays in a quiet part of the park some dog will cross over the whole length of the park to bounce on mine and although mine are doing nothing other than laying down the average owner will have to cross the park and come right up to their dog and even grab the collar before the dog will go away. Then they let go of the dog and back it comes.

We went to a different town to a beach on Sunday and there 80% of the dogs ran up to ours with no recall several sniffed and tried to mount and we found on the street where the dogs were mostly on leads the dogs were still coming to ours and sniffing bouncing or mounting.  I think different areas have different traditions on what is normal acceptable behaviour  for pet dogs.

The friends I now who have seriously dog aggressive dogs tend to walk them alone using muzzles and head halters or anti-pull harnesses now and they stick to city street footpaths where they are not likey to meet that many off lead dogs.

We have four dogs, one of which is a 9 1/2 stone Pyrenean Mountain Dog male. He used to be very dog aggressive when we first got him at 2 1/2 years old. He would go beserk if there was a dog a field away in the distance...

Troy is almost always walked separately. Partly because my husband is responsible for him and he walks at different times (he works shifts) and partly because Troy would not have been controllable with the other dogs around as they would all join in.

Now, 5 years later after lots of work with him, Troy is fine around dogs (when with me... though hubby says he isn't when with him - I am not sure whether he is not reading him right or whether he is still aggressive as such) and actually enjoys their company and says hello nicely. I would however never dare to take him out together with the others unless hubby is with us too (which we sometimes do at week-ends). It is sometimes tricky enough to control 3 fairly light-weight dogs, I wouldn't want to add a heavy weight - mainly because I can't control what other people's dogs do!

So in your case, to be honest, I would not even contemplate to take all three out together unless you have someone else with you that can help! There's too many things that can go wrong... and if they do, it certainly won't help with the rehabilitiation of your dog. 

I was just wondering what breed mr beast is?

he's a borzoi