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Up Topic Dog Boards / General / Enhanced 5 Generation Pedigree Certificate.
- By quirky [gb] Date 22.03.06 13:11 GMT
Is it worth paying 31 quid for the 5 generation pedigree certificate (with breed records supplement)?  I'm am about to fill out a transfer of registered ownership form, and not quite sure if this is worth it or not. 

I have a copy of a five generation pedigree for the dam, but not the sire.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 22.03.06 13:23 GMT
Has the breeder not given you a five genration pedigree for you puppy.  I alwys do my owh in colour with all te4h hip scores listed, so in that case I wouldn't consdier one worthile, but if you ahven't got a nice one from the breeder then it is really up to you.
- By quirky [gb] Date 22.03.06 13:26 GMT
I only got a black and white copy... and only for the mother... not for the sire. 
- By quirky [gb] Date 22.03.06 13:24 GMT
While i'm at it... i'm staring at the pedigree of the mother of my dog.  And i don't know if this is normal or not.. but on the pedigree it shows one name a few times on both the grandfathers side as well as the grandmothers side.  (Not sure if you're suppose to mention names but i will this time and just correct myself).  Dutch CH Belmondo the Red Powerpack, is listed on the pedigree four different times on both sides... I'm guessing this may be normal tho.. since it was 3 or 4 matings ago..
- By Brainless [gb] Date 22.03.06 13:38 GMT
That is linebreeding.  The purpose of which is to retain the qualities of a particular ancestor, and make it more likely that they will still be in the future generations, of course this needs to be done wisely as the poor points of this ancestor could as easily be fixed as the hoped for good.
- By quirky [gb] Date 22.03.06 13:39 GMT
wow.. i've traced the grandparents to breeders listed on this forum:

"His sire is multi CH xxxxxxxxxxxxxx,World champion for 2002 and adult world champion male 2003.Best in Show at the French club match 2002 (competeing against minimum of 200 Dogue de Bordeauxs)"

That sure sounds impressive.  i've dropped the breeder an email though the site.. i hope they reply.
- By Anwen [gb] Date 22.03.06 13:41 GMT
You should have rec's at least a 3 gen. pedigree for the puppy not for the dam.
Line breeding to 1 particular dog is quite common & normal in many well bred puppies.
If you want to have a posh pedigree, why not produce one yourself?
- By quirky [gb] Date 22.03.06 13:45 GMT
produce one myself? i dont understand.

in the mail today i got a transfer of registered ownership form.  In section c it states if i wanted a 5 generation pedigree certificate.  so i asked the forum if its worth it.

i didnt get any for the puppy, or the sire.  so i'm doing research online.
- By Soli Date 22.03.06 14:07 GMT
Hi Quirky,
It's normal when getting a pedigree of your puppy that ALL ancesters are listed (be it 3 or 5 generations).  If you only have one side of the pedigree filled in (the dam's side) I'd say yes go for the pedigree from the Kennel Club.  As well as doing that I'd be ringing the breeder and asking why they didn't fill in the sire's side as this seems to be very strange.
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 22.03.06 14:13 GMT
Quiry, did the breeder not give you a copy of the sire's pedigree, or one completed for the puppy with both sire and dam's details? If not, did she say why not, because it's normal practice to provide a pedigree (at least 3 generation, more usually 5) for the puppy.
- By spanishwaterdog [gb] Date 22.03.06 14:22 GMT Edited 22.03.06 14:24 GMT
All breeders have details of the sire and dam so you should have both on it!

Alex I hope that you've got Ricardo's now, it's not dead posh but I did it myself and I don't think it's bad at all, just as nice as the KC's and about 3/4 of the price!!

How's that for timing Alex, whilst I was typing this your message came through :d
- By quirky [gb] Date 22.03.06 14:29 GMT
No.. i'm afraid i havent received that from breeder.  I'm not particuliarly happy with my breeder anyway, i've been in touch with the littermates of my dog and none of us were impressed with the presentation.  We all received a photo copy of a five generation pedigree for the dam.  The sire, who was on premises was a stud dog, and she promised to make a copy for us.. but we never go it.  I called the KC in london, and a nice lady (candy is her name.. i'm only mentioning it because it seems everytime you call you get Candy.. so maybe some of you know her), and she assured me everything was ok with sires registration. 

At the time the breeder was mentioning champion this and that, but to be honest with you... none of that mattered to me.  I was just looking for a pet and at that time, any talk of 'lines' was going way over my head.

I will pay the 31 quid for the full pedigree and breed supplement (although im not sure about breed supplement).. i'm gathering its worth it.

I've been googling the dogs in the pedigree and trying to contact owner's.. i thought it would be nice that they know where offsprings have went.

I will however not be re-newing my pet insurance for 22.95 a month! 
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 22.03.06 14:33 GMT
Personally in these circumstances I'd pay the £6 for a five-generation pedigree (not the enhanced, but I'm a skinflint!) as shown on this page, and be really miffed that the breeder was so lax as to not at least give a photocopy of the sire's pedigree as well.
- By quirky [gb] Date 22.03.06 14:46 GMT
Thank you very much JG... they seemed to forget to mention there was a  £6 option on my registration form LOL.  You've saved me 15 quid.. i'll do the transfer for 10.. and order the 5 generation for 6.  If i want the champions in red.. i'll highlight it myself.
- By poppysmum [gb] Date 22.03.06 14:52 GMT
I was given black and white copies from my breeder, but I have also paid the £30 for the KC pedigrees etc..

I personally think its nice to have all the papers, even though I have no intention of breeding or showing.
- By Havoc [gb] Date 22.03.06 15:04 GMT

To be honest, there is not much in the breed supplements for the average pet owner. They basically contain a list of all the litters registered in the quarter for the appropriate breed group (eg. The Working Group). You will get the supplement that your pup was registered in your name, which may not be the same quarter as when the pup's litter was actually registered.

The supplements also contain lists of transfers of ownership, new stud book entries, hip scores and eye tests etc. For a serious breeder and / or student of a breed they are an invaluable resource. For the average pet owner they are pretty much just a list of names and numbers. My wife refers to mine as being as interesting as a telephone book!

When I have sold puppies in the past, I have usually shown an example to puppy buyers so they know what they would be buying and their eyes usually glaze over!
- By quirky [gb] Date 22.03.06 15:46 GMT
LOL.. thanks havoc.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 22.03.06 18:08 GMT
I will send you a template in Word and you can fill out a nice poss one for yourself once you have the £6 one.

There are also free pedigree generating programs on websites if you google
- By calmstorm Date 23.03.06 04:02 GMT
Pet insurance is really essential, for 3rd party liability (in case your house ins dosn't cover it) and vets fees, which can cost thousands. You need cover for life, which means that at the end of each twelve months they don't stop the policy and start again, excluding any condition that may have been treated in the previous 12 mths. This may be a little pricer than other policies, but well worth it in the long run. if you do an internet search, you can cost compare various companies, but do make sure before you pay that the cover is for life. How did you manage to contact the owners of the littermates? Good luck with your 'bundle' :)

This should have 'dropped' much higher up....soz for being out of the order lol! was a reply to OP re ins
- By quirky [gb] Date 23.03.06 08:26 GMT
I will do more research.. i just hope to come off a lot better than 22.95 a month ... although i'm told it may be the breed itself that is so expensive...
- By calmstorm Date 23.03.06 10:45 GMT
yes, insurance companies do charge higher for different breeds, and your location plays a part also. Whatever you decide, do have a word with your household insurers, and see what they say about 3rd party liability for your dog. this covers should he run out in the road and cause an accident, for which you would be liable, or (god forbid) he causes or is involved in a fight, or he bites someone, or puts them in fear of being bitten. Not that I' saying for one minute he would, BUT you have to keep in mind these days the DDA, and at the end of the day, no matter how well trained your dog is, it is an animal and all animals can do what we least expect, or be attacked by another, and while the courts are sorting it out you need the cash to pay a solicitor. The high cost of treatment available at the vets today is also another factor to consider when having an animal, especially if a larger breed dog, as they need more tablets to their body weight, or more in injections, anesthetic etc etc than a samller dog having identical treatment. Thats when the monthly payments may come in handy, although you may feel happier just meting the bills as they come, and of course this is your choice, and only you know if you can meet that commitment. credit cards can be wonderful things lol! I cant understand why the insurers can't cut off the 'fluffy' bits for those that don't want them, such as holiday cancelation fees if the dog is ill, or boarding fees, or rewards for finding your lost dog etc, and just do a straight forward 3rd party and vets (including referals and any costs there) fees, making the monthly fee a little cheaper for those that don't want the other bits? of course, if any company actually does this on a cover for life basis, please pm me the details! :)
- By Tenaj [gb] Date 22.03.06 17:44 GMT
I ordered the posh enhanced certificate from the KC.. it arrived all torn and battered and fit for the bin. I'd not waste my money again!

YOu can trace the pedegrees on the internet... the sire and dam probably have 5 gen pegergrees on the net all ready to copy and print out..then just add your own dog. 
- By Phoebe [gb] Date 22.03.06 18:14 GMT
You can get some really nice parchment card or paper and fiddle about on the word processor. Highlight the champions in red, the other is blue, pick a nice font and they look every bit as posh - more so if done on really nice paper - as the enhanced ones from the K.C. I did one for my step sister a few Christmases back of her retired racing greyhound. I framed it up and it has pride of place on her wall with photos of the dog.

As for tracing dogs on the internet - you won't believe how much info is out there if you look hard enough. I managed to trace my shar-pei back to the foundation dogs mostly on the net.
- By perrodeagua [gb] Date 22.03.06 22:36 GMT
Just thought I'd say that I would presume that DDB's pedigrees are very much like Spanish Water Dogs and in some lines you will go back only a couple of generations and that will be it as many of our dogs ancestors were working dogs that the farmers didn't bother registering so they could of had a couple of generations that were never registered so there are no KC names for them.

Just wondering whether the DDB are similar and that'w why you may not have a 5 generation pedigree?
- By quirky [gb] Date 23.03.06 00:55 GMT
actually, 5 generations ago... there are some blank spaces.. (remember i have the 5 generation pedigree of the dam)  7 spots are empty.

I've been in contact with some people and it seems that the Dutch CH Belmondo the Red powerpack... was a very popular dog in the late 90's in the DDB lines.. and that's why he appears 7 times on both side of my dogs line.... breeding the best traits of the dogue and keeping the lines current its been explained.
- By Phoebe [gb] Date 23.03.06 10:18 GMT
actually, 5 generations ago... there are some blank spaces.. (remember i have the 5 generation pedigree of the dam)  7 spots are empty.

Have you tried putting the name of the dog immediately before the blank space into Google?
- By Brainless [gb] Date 23.03.06 10:42 GMT
Yes as that may merely mean that a note was not made of more than 3 generations on an imports pedigree.

having imported a dog, we know his pedigre way, back,a dn sent 5 genrations to the kennel club, yet when my freind had a litter by him and decided to get the KC pedigrees for her puppy buyers she got them back with only 3 generations listed on Dads side, another reason for doing them yourself.
Up Topic Dog Boards / General / Enhanced 5 Generation Pedigree Certificate.

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