Champdogs Information Exchange
24.11.05 13:18 GMT
Hi there, my partner and I are looking for a miniature Pug. It needs to be small as it will be, on ocassion, taking day trips and also we live in an apartment. It will absolutely be coming to the most attentive and loving home. If anyone can help, we would love to hear from you. Willingly to travel to any part of the country to pick up. Thanks, PugLover!
24.11.05 13:22 GMT
Minaturisation often leads to severe health problems. You would be far better seeking a healthy properly sized pug from a responsible breeder via the breed club
which would be perfectly small enough for an appartment. Can't see any relevance to size for day trips
a dog of any size will outwalk their humans so no need to be carried.
24.11.05 18:38 GMT
Tell me this is a wind up - pugs only weight about 20 pound sto begin with.
24.11.05 20:58 GMT
HEAVY pugs weigh 20lbs! They are a toy breed, albeit one of the bigger toys. IF you like pugs why would you want something which deviates from the ideal? Small pugs can be fit and healthy, just too small to show or breed, but they are more likely to be small due to some problem at or before birth. This is likely to give ongoing, lifelong health problems. No ethical breeder of pugs is actively trying to breed mini pugs, so if anyone is trying to market them beware, they are selling you a potential problem. I am speaking form personal experience, my own darling Puglet weights just 10.5 lbs, and is about the height of the average 5 - 6 month old puppy. She is now 4 years old. She was hand reared, as her mother not only rejected her but tried to kill her. She has many and various helath issues, which as her breeder I happily cope with, but could never have passed this huge responsibility on to anyone else. IF you actually meant you want a pug who is just on the smaller side of the standard, then why not join the board, some breeders do prefer the more petitte pug (as opposed to miniature) but still within the breed standard, may be able to give you contact details for 1 or 2 of these breeders for a healthy, well bred pug who is likely to be at the lower end of the acceptable size scale.
24.11.05 18:45 GMT
24.11.05 18:57 GMT
Wicked, Daisy! But ay laike it!
(Previously Guest) - sorry I should have been more clear - I was after advice and information on Pugs. Not the sanctimonious and self-righteous stance I received. Yes, I was obviously misinformed regarding the various names Pugs have these days. However, a simple explanation, rather than smug snap, would have sufficed. Not that any of you are capable of caring but we now have a healthy and happy 4 month pug (at 2.17lbs).
23.12.05 12:20 GMT
And a merry Christmas to you too!
Some of the replies may have been a bit tongue in cheek, but if you had read anything about the bred you woudlmhave known they were a toy breed, and were simply called Pugs.
Sadly puppy farmers will often sell weak undersized pups of the breed they are exploiting and make the fault of weediness seem a virtue. so you get silly names/descriptiosn such as Minature Yorkies, Teacup thsi or that. Needless to say real dog lovers ahve no patience for such people or those il informed enough to fuel the practice.
I do hope that you have found a well bred healthy Kennel Club registered puppy from a reputabel breedr that belongs to the breed clubs and breds with the breeds, pups and your welfare at heart, otherwise you may well find you have problems down the road, with a breeder uninterested in helping.
Better still, instead of the 'bite me':rolleyes: Let my dog bite you!!!
Big Newfie, big bite, snacks on ALL MINIATURE doggies! LOL
23.12.05 13:00 GMT
Hi PugLover pleased you have found your little bungle of fun what have you named him or her we have 4 pugs from 7 months to 7 years
Merry Christmas Margaret & Barry
I hope it stays healthy, at that weight I would be very worried about it!
A Pomeranian weighs more than that and they are smaller.:rolleyes:
It's a shame that you bought off someone who doesn't care for the breed and mustn't be a Pug lover or they would breed to the standard.
Why do we bother advising some people?
After finding out more about the breed (again, no thanks to people on this forum), we were able to locate a breeder with a small pug pup from a litter of three. The breeders have been breeding Pugs for 19 years and Yorkies before that. They said they have only seen one other Pug (of theirs) that small in their years breeding. Her sister and brother were of normal size, I guess she was what some call the runt. Having met the sire and dam, we would have expected her to be of standard breed size and this may still happen but is probably unlikely. Again, it is the assumptions made on this forum that bother me. Are the breeders supposed to destory any non-standard pups so to ensure pure breed lines? Runts happen and someone has to love and care for them. Why is a newbie stating this obvious fact? The breeders were incredibly open with us and supplied us with letters and phone numbers of past buyers - all of which gave us fantastic feedback, help and advice on Pugs. I am not going to apologise for wanting a dog smaller than normal. My name does not involve a capital city and a chain hotel. She has been checked over and her vet assures me she is healthy and normal in everyway other than "breed standard". Also, swd - when have you ever offered advice?
23.12.05 19:36 GMT
23.12.05 19:40 GMT
Yes, runts happen - but there's no need to deliberately seek them out. Gwen (who posted earlier in the thread) is a reputable breeder of pugs, and kept the runt that was born to one of her bitches, because she says that even at 10lb she's too unhealthy to sell to anyone.
You've totally lost me with the reference to names and capital cities and hotel chains.
Why shoudn't I seek one out if they are healthy and happy? I DO NOT WANT TO BREED. I NEVER HAVE, I NEVER WILL. We have the time and the energy to care for her. What else matters?
What else matters? The other runts that people might try to breed to fill the market they believe is there. :(
I think JG that puglover was referring, in a roundabout way, to the name Paris Hilton ;) :D
Ah, thanks! That went completely over my head. I've only vaguely heard of her - and only because of her name - I haven't a clue what she does for a living. I suppose she's a 'celebrity'?
>>I suppose she's a 'celebrity'
LOL only if you think an heiress to a large hotel chain is a 'celebrity' although having said that she does have a show on ch4 called "the simple life" its not a program you would put your life on hold to watch :P :D
I'm glad you've been successful in finding a reputable breeder, not one of the many puppy farmers. Hopefully he'll grow to a healthy size. I'm still confused as the the relevance of size in relation to taking day trips - it's easy to take a dog the size of a labrador on day trips, after all! Please could you explain the reasoning for me? :)
23.12.05 17:37 GMT
Perhaps they've only got a small car!! :rolleyes: I suspect they've gone off in a huff now though. :-)
Even the tiniest of cars has plenty of room for a normal-sized pug! :D
Is a Huff a new type of car then?
23.12.05 18:07 GMT
Ever taken a Lab on the London Underground? The smaller the dog, the better for us. We don't have a big apartment either.
23.12.05 19:22 GMT
23.12.05 19:34 GMT
I've taken dalmatians on the London Underground without problem - when I was living in a tiny apartment in Central London. Blind people take Guide dogs on the underground too. :) That's no reason to encourage the breeding of undersized runts. :(
23.12.05 19:22 GMT
Nobody is suggesting that you would be better with a Labrador just a properly sized pug. No problems with one of them anywhere I would imagine :)
LOL I've taken very large GSDs on the London Underground ! so what is your point ?(in the rush hour too)
You can all have this one - hate me and bring on the sanctimony. I wanted a smaller dog. I am not apologising. I have a gorgeous, happy and healthy pup. Just so we are all clear though, this is NOT, primarily anyway, a forum for constructive advice and help. It is obviously a magnet for a large number of unhappy people, probably with sad powerless lives, who feel important skulking around in cyberspace and chastising people for a desicion that at the end of the day welcomes a gorgeous wee life into the rest of theirs. That's all kids, my pup wants me to play.
You were given constructive advice and help in your first reply - to contact the breed clubs and ask for details of reputable breeders who try to produce healthy animals. If you choose not to take that advice, that's not the fault of the either the advisor or the forum.
23.12.05 20:48 GMT
Oh dear! What an unhappy bunny!:rolleyes: I am afraid you are soooo far from the truth it is laughable
.This board has many very successful breeders/exhibitors/owners of their chosen breeds in many different aspects of the dog world who share many years of experience and knowledge with many people needing help and advice.What we also share is a passion for our breeds and an ambition to keep our breeds healthy and not encourage the new stupid trend of wanting undersized unhealthy specimans. By actively seeking to buy a small undersized pup you are encouraging these unscrupulous breeders who seek to breed pups for this new trend at the expense of the dogs and the breeds.
I hope your pup stays healthy...at 4 months it would be impossible to say wether he will develope any problems in the future...as with any pup but that is why we encourage the purchasing of puppies from responsible breeders who health tests etc and thus ensure as much as possible the fiture health of the pups bred.
>>It is obviously a magnet for a large number of unhappy people, probably with sad powerless lives, who feel important skulking around in cyberspace and chastising people for a desicion that at the end of the day welcomes a gorgeous wee life into the rest of theirs.
ROFL ...wow! We have NEVER heard that before :rolleyes: :D Always from someone who has been here for two minutes
PugLover nobody hates you but you started out saying that you wanted a breed that isn't a breed, a miniature Pug.
Like Gwen myself and my parents have kept the runts of litters from our Pomeranian's and it is very rare for them to live a life as long as a proper sized version of their breed. This is sad but in most cases true especially in the smaller breeds. Yes there are some small pups in a litter that soon catch up, but in my experience a true runt of the litter never forfills a full life. I hope that your Pug does.
I'll tell you why people get upset because most of us strive to try and ensure as best as possible that our dogs meet the true breed standard, by this I don't mean for the showring, because the breed standard isn't just there for showdogs it's there for everyone to know the boundaries in which a breed of dog should fit in.
Luckily for you you have found breeders that usually have normally bred sized dogs but one that they have bred is much smaller than the norm. This happens to us all at some point, but for people who deliberately go out to breed a smaller version of a breed that is already small enough can be so upsetting to those of us who ensure that we breed in the best and hopefully the healthiest way possible.
It's a shame that you took the comments personally as they weren't personal just advising you of the downfalls.
23.12.05 23:53 GMT
"skulking sanctimoniously in cyberspace".
It's a cracker! But only when you've got your teeth in. ;)
Ok so you showed me up, but I'll still continue to skulk!!! LOL
If I remember rightly..it was you and your BITE ME attitude that p*ssed a few off!
:D :D :D
love Dawn, short, fat but incredibely good looking!
Well i hope for your sake it doesn't grow too big. i've just seen a border terrier pup, it was tiny when he first came into work at 8 weeks, now at 19 weeks he is huge, almost bigger than your average border. I also hope that he doesn't suffer from too many health problems caused by being bred too small.
24.12.05 21:24 GMT
hope you have a lovely christmas with your new pup. good luck.
26.12.05 19:10 GMT
Hi Puglover, Wow, and I thought my first reply to you was helpful! Sometimes people react badly when the advice given is not what they want to hear. However, leaving your "huff" aside, I hope that your pup is indeed the happy, healthy pug your were looking for, and manages to avoid the problems often experienced with "runts". To answer one or two of the points raised here, most reputable breeders I know either keep or rehome with someone they know and trust, (probably for a very nominal sum) the "runts" from a litter. By runt I mean an obviously much smaller and weaker pup, often with some degree of deformity or lack of development. If you have been lucky enough to find a pug who is just smaller than the norm, rather than a runt, you have a much greater chance of having a pug with a long and healthy life. Good luck wiht your new pug, and please, why notaccept that the advice given here was well meaning, and join in without feeling defensive? We woudl be happy to get updates on your new babe, and if you need any pug advice we have several pug fans here - a ready made place to shop for puggy advice.
27.12.05 07:13 GMT
Lovely reply Gwen :)
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