Champdogs Information Exchange
20.06.17 07:38 GMT
Please please help. I don't think I can take much more with my 2.5 year old male wire haired dachshund. I have posted about him in the past as he has not been an easy dog at all but I have persevered and persevered with no luck from stopping his marking his behaviour.
The problem is that's he is an incessant whiner, he whine and he whines all day long, I work from home he has company but he will often sit in another's room and whine and whine even if I give him new toys he whines nothing distracts him we have tried to ignore him hopingnhe will get the message but nothing works. Secondly where we live we have open space behind us and when other dogs come especially his friends he can tell without even seeing them and then he goes crazy whining, howling and barking so I have to shut the windows and put him in the bathroom with the lights off until he calms down. This is the only thing that calms him down. It is terrible because his happens every day.
He also barks a lot and sets our nerves on edge.
He also has OCD he is obsessed with balls especially tennis balls to the point that he is intrusive if we don't want to play with him he will shove the ball in our face or on our lap and he is relentless.
Then of course there is the marking which he still does especially in other people's houses.
I really love him and this is why I have put up with everything for so long but he is getting really bad now and I think he has a psychological problem! I don't know what to do next and yup he is still not neutered honestly I don't know if doing this would make a difference or make him worse.
I really would appreciate help here as I write this he is in the other room whining and whining and whining and whining I can't stand it any more.
THank you for any help.
20.06.17 08:01 GMT
First of all, remove the balls. Completely. No ball play, at all. Some dogs can become obsessive like this and ball play (or toy chasing generally) pushes the adrenaline up and when they do it a lot, that adrenaline just stays up. All the time. Then you have a constantly wired dog, who does exactly as you describe, and who shows other signs of it. Remove the ball chasing and it should make a big difference to him generally. You will have a period where he tries to continue with it; persist and it will be worth it in the long run. I've been through this with 5 of mine and in every case, they were much calmer and happier for having it removed and in all areas of their lives. In the long run I have been able to reintroduce some small amounts of ball play without a recurrence of the obsession/adrenalin issue.
Neutering is unlikely to help any of these problems.
What training specifically have you done with him to date, and what is his daily routine?
I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone !!!
I have a dog who whines a lot, but not as much as yours. In fact, she frequently makes me anxious with her whining. She is 5 now and age hasn't made any difference.
If we go out in the car she whines and barks, even if she's on someone's knee. It's very distracting, especially when trying to park. She is quiet on the way home so I know it's excitement/anxiety on the way out.
She is a very anxious dog. She overreacts to loud noises and is very in tune with us. If any of us are angry or upset, she becomes anxious. She is rarely left alone, and then only for short periods.
She has one favourite toy but if you remove it, she just gets another. She will put the toy at your feet to throw then, as you get up to get it, she darts out and grabs it first. It is SO frustrating !!!!
When bored she will go out in the garden and bark at birds or to the neighbours dog. Or she will take a toy out, drop it on the floor and face the house, then bark at the house - as if to call us out to play. Even if we went out, she wouldn't drop the ball to play. She gets walked twice a day with one being a run in the park, so isn't neglected.
I can honestly say that she frequently sucks the joy out of dog ownership. I will never have another.
I can't remember -is yours a Standard or Miniature? I really don't know about the breed here, but at home in Sweden the majority of Wire Standard Dachshunds are working dogs, that work for their keep, so I wonder if this is simply a case of a frustrated working dog that need to do more to use his brain, such as scentwork?
20.06.17 14:17 GMT
Nikita has hit the nail on the head, remove the ball, all balls and all toys. Persevere and you will have a much calmer, relaxed dog.
I'm always careful never to allow my dogs to become ball/toy obsessed in the first place, and to allow them to be dogs on walks and sniff around and play with other dogs but every day I meet several other dogs (often collies) with different owners who can only see their ball/toy/tuggy and will eat any other dog that comes close to their toy. They're not happy dogs at all, it may seem easy in the beginning to endlessly throw a ball to tire your dog out but it doesn't help them become happy, balanced adults.
I have read that dogs like this do best on strict routines so I was wondering if you have a structure to your day with regular exercise and so on, perhaps as others have suggested you could replace the addictive balls with brain work such as hide and seek, I met someone with 3 minis last night and it was interesting that 2 of his dogs were swimming in the river, fetching sticks and the other was excavating a large hole in the field. He was saying that his need lots more exercise than he ever thought and like to busy for a large part of the day.
21.06.17 17:24 GMT
Thank you all so much I will try to answer all the questions.
So he is a standard dachshund and he has a routine as follows:-
7:30 am up am doing out on the school run we walk the kids to school 30 mins and vary the route
Home for breakfast
Then he sleeps
Lunchtime out for walk and play 15 mins approx
Then he usually sleeps
15:00 30 min or longer walk
20:00 he goes on his bed and sleeps till morning!!!!
On the weekends he gets really long walks in the fields also.
I just think there is more to this situation it has been another bad day, all toys have been hidden and there is not a ball to be found. Yet he whines and whine and whines, before I take him out he goes crazy and his best dog friend was outside today so they played for a long time but my dog was continually trying to hump the other dog.
I still feel that something could be wrong tha the vet missed he is dripping yellow discharge on the floor also (I told the vet this).
I agree with the hiding of balls and toys but his behaviour has got so bad I a man wondering if he really is not well and is trying to tell us or if maybe he can smell an unfixed female and this is what is driving him crazy.
I have tried scent work with him but truly he just does not get it. he is also not interested in digging or fetching anything other than his tennis ball.
The marking is unstoppable I tried the sprays, rubbing clove oil, water pistol if I see him in the act nothing works.
He also hates the water so won't swim!
I have tried to focus him from the marking, whining, barking with treats and kongs, have tried with noise interruption such as a bottle filled with stones, the no bark air cyclinder, read books that all suggest what to do but nothing is working.
Yet the vets all keep telling me to have him neutered and the trainers say they won't work with him until then.
I am really lost for what the next step is.
21.06.17 19:58 GMT
21.06.17 20:01 GMT
Why are you against neutering ?
Also, have you had a urine test and a swab of the discharge ?
Is his whining any different when the kids are home ?
21.06.17 20:41 GMT
> Yet the vets all keep telling me to have him neutered and the trainers say they won't work with him until then.
Keep trying to find a new trainer, that is ridiculous. They shouldn't be saying anything of the sort until they've at least met him! Occasionally I will recommend neutering but never, ever until I've worked with a dog first. Always training first, before you try a major and irreversible hormonal alteration.
Whereabouts are you? I could ask my FB friends if anyone is local and willing/able to help.
22.06.17 04:37 GMT
They did not do a urine test or a swab
No difference when the children are here.
I am not against neutering but I have read so many negatives on the forum and everyone tells me not to neuter apart from the vets and the dog trainers.
Interestingly last night I realised what the problem could be a few weeks ago a female moved to the area she lives directly opposite us she is spayed but when she comes out to play he goes crazy, yesterday afternoon I took him out to play with her and he was humping her like there was no tomorrow!
I think that he can smell her and the fact that she lives opposite drives him crazy. He only started to get bad when she moved in.
Could this be the case even though she is spayed?
I have always had my cats and dogs neutered when they are mature. I always think that, if they've not got those bits, they can't get cancerous so it's disease prevention.
I personally don't know of anyone who doesn't get their cats/dogs neutered. Obviously it's a personal choice but I would imagine that more people get them done than not.
You've obviously now worked out what the problem is which is good !!
I've never had an un-neutered dog that hankers after a bitch so would be interested to learn if neutering would stop it eventually.
I seem to remember reading about a bitch who showed signs of coming into season even though she had been spayed. I think that a small amount of tissue had been left behind.
Ok I know it doesn't help to train him NOT to mark - but if you're struggling with this, get a bellyband for him - Glendarcy do brilliant ones, and it will save your home and belongings while you try to find something that will help him learn not to do it. Some of my friends who have entire dogs and bitches have them wear them particularly when a bitch is in season and the urge to mark increases.
22.06.17 14:19 GMT
> I have always had my cats and dogs neutered when they are mature. I always think that, if they've not got those bits, they can't get cancerous so it's disease prevention.
Very true. But neutering revoves testosterone which in some dogs, can cause major problems and with this boy's excessive marking and whining, he may be struggling with anxiety so it's possible that removing that extra backbone, so to speak, would make things considerably worse. It's not common, but it does happen. And it's irreversible. This is why it's important to do training first - establish the cause of the problems, work with them then if training fails, try neutering.
Also, neutering increases the risk of prostate and bladder cancer in males. Swings and roundabouts.
22.06.17 14:40 GMT
I have an update today I saw a different vet at the same clinic, I could not take the howling much more.
He asked me to bring a urine sample which was tested and negative thankfully.
I told him my thoughts on the problem and he told me that when he was young around 15 he had a dog who did the same thing but he was not neutered so he used to walk him loads and exercise him to keep him tired. He did not advise me to neuter he said that as my dog is two and a half neutering would stop marking by 60/70% but that there is no guarantee it would stop the other behaviour.
He said it is most likely that there is a female who has come into season somewhere and this is driving the dog mad and that we should give it 10 days or so to see if he calms down. He also said that dogs can go off their food at this time because they have their mind solely on other things!
So this is what I am going to do, he has had a lot of exercise today I increased his morning and lunch time walk and he is sleeping and calmer. I also gave him a tinned food mixed with his regular dry and he gobbled it down.
I am hoping that this all helps and that whoever has a female in season it may be coming to the end for a while!!!!!
Thank you for the advice and for the bellyband recommendation I think that is a great idea.
Isn't there also an injection that the dog can have to show the OP the effect if he was neutered ?
22.06.17 16:16 GMT
There are two options for that, yes - the tardak injection and the suprelorin implant, which I believe (from what I've read on here) is the preferable option. Suprelorin lasts 6 months, I think tardak is about the same but I'm not 100% sure on that.
However, whether any long terms effects would remain if it did cause him to get worse, I'm not sure either (in a learned behaviour way, rather than purely hormonal).
22.06.17 17:34 GMT
Really interesting article! My dogs are very calm and laid back, but I do not take them out everyday as sometimes I have health problems. So pleased to read that it is perfectly ok to do this. I find that most members of the public are obsessed with exercising their dogs daily and in some cases several times a day. Have to add that I do brain games with them as well.
22.06.17 17:46 GMT
Tardak is a repeat injection & only lasts for a few weeks before having to be renewed.
It is basically a female hormone that "mutes" the male hormones, one unfortunate side effects is that the male dog becomes very attractive to other male dogs.
Superloren stops temporarily the production of testosterone there mimics more accurately castration
22.06.17 17:47 GMT
22.06.17 17:49 GMT
Totally agree tigran. goat u may be better to decrease walks and do mental games at home with him . I have a book that was recommended by a behaviourist called no walks no worries which u may find useful .I think the author is Claire arrowsmith also a behvaiourist.
23.06.17 06:58 GMT
And yes, it is fine not to walk your dogs every day! Phoebe goes out once a week at the most - phobias - and the rest don't get out every day. They won't get out today because I'm struggling after doing a ton of DIY yesterday (and more to do today building a chicken run that has to be done for tonight) and it's raining!
As long as they've got stuff to do at home, they should be fine and I'm a big advocate of people teaching their dogs to cope with having the odd day off as even if they are perfectly fine with their twice daily walks, hikes etc, you never know when you might need them to be able to deal with it (illness, emergency, for you or them etc).
Just wondering if your dog's food could be a contributory factor. Certain dogs can react badly to dry food which contain a lot of grain or have a high protein content or lots of additives, a bit like toddlers being given too many e numbers! If you havent tried before, maybe changing to a high meat content but low protein food or raw food might be worth a go? Good luck, sounds like a very stressful situation.
24.06.17 09:28 GMT
Interesting re food being a factor he has been off it all week so I tried adding some tinned food and now he will eat again. I might switch him from dry food at the moment he has HIlls ND Ancestral Grain Chicken and Pomegrante (Rather fancy) but obviously is not keen anymore, he used to eat Accana but it gave him a bad tummy the meat concept was too high.
Also love the idea of brain games and will order the book recommended thank you all sooooo much
Eden, Akela and Millie's all online are good one stop consider.tjeu might offer u some samples to try .all grain free and minimal extras .they come up well in the allaboutdog chart. I raw feed but of forced would.consodsr one of those over most others
25.06.17 12:21 GMT
Thank you I shall read up on these foods
Will someone please advice:
1) Is there really is a difference in behaviour between a black and salt/pepper standard schnauzer? I understand there are differences between the 3 sizes and they should be regarded as 3 distinct breeds, but why would black be any different from a salt/pepper within the same beeed size?
2) If it is possible for a dam to have a litter of both colours why then would the temperament differ by much? A breeder has told me blacks are more on edge, I wonder why? I've read other blogs and such and this isn't true in all cases, much as every pup from the same mother will be different in some aspects of their personality.
3) If anyone has insights on why this size is rare here as compared to the mini or giant. I've been searching for a KC-assured breeder of standard schnauzers in the U.K. and haven't had much luck. Any limited litters especially black are hard to come by (and in the case of a current breeder who kept me waiting 5 days before telling me her pups are all reserved. So frustrating and disappointing!). My husband and I prefer this size as we've read that it is known for its intelligence, endurance and stamina and he's a keen marathon runner (though not a dog to go the full distance with him!). We also love outdoor activities and don't want a mini we'll trample over and can't have a larger dog like a retriever or German shepherd as we live in a flat in central London. Plus I'm not a fan of dog hair all over
4) And finally, what are the likely reasons a breeder will choose to sell their pups to one owner but not the other? I have answered her questions about our lifestyle truthfully and although we do not have a garden for the dog to play in, we do have a comfortable home with enough space and lots of dog-friendly facilities around. I also work in a dog-friendly office which will offer the pup lots of opportunities to socialise.
05.07.17 08:14 GMT
Can't help you with most of your questions, but I did meet a black standard schnauzer last year. She certainly kept the owners on their toes and was a very active and lively dog at nine months. The owners said that they had to wait a long time before getting one as there are so few people breeding them.
05.07.17 10:19 GMT
Two standards attend the ringcraft class I go to. They are very nice dogs, not as "busy" as the mini's I've met. I can't see how colour would affect temperament....
In answer to your last question...personally I take every puppy enquiry on an individual basis. I've sold puppies to people who live in flats, with outside communal gardens. I've also sold puppies to people who work. It might help for you to contact breeders before they have a litter available, so that you can build a relationship and prove that you are serious about wanting a dog and how you are planning on dealing with house training etc.
Have you contacted the breed club to get the details of breeders who are planning a litter?
05.07.17 11:47 GMT
05.07.17 11:50 GMT
I can only put my two bits worth in here re colour. In my own breed it has been said that the bicolours are in general, more laid back than the tricolours. And extending from that, as colour can be linked genetically to temperament, it wouldn't be impossible, I'd imagine, for puppies in a litter containing bicolours and tricolours to have the individual temperament traits seen in the two colours. Certainly our only lemon/white boy in our usual tricolours puppies was really quite different. And interestingly he would almost never be seen snuggling up with his black brothers and sisters other than when at the milk bar! And as we kept him and one of the tricolours bitches, we continued to see a difference throughout his life.
Re who sells their puppies to who - experienced breeders would tend to learn by their mistakes in the homes the pups they breed go to. I'd never sell to somebody in an apartment, or without a contained private outside area, or to people working full time. Because I know with my breed, none of these homes would normally work out. And I didn't want my puppies ending up being returned, or worse, in a Shelter. But that's just me, with my main breed.
I turned down a few people who wanted a puppy who worked full time. I didn't get any enquiries from people without a garden, but I would not have sold to those either. I wanted the very best possible for the pups and I had enough people wanting them to choose the homes which I felt would be the best.
05.07.17 15:25 GMT
I personally wouldn't sell to anyone without a private enclosed garden either. Working full time would be considered, a lot depends on what they plan to do with the pup when they are at work. If it's going to be left on its own the whole time then no I wouldn't. I would want to speak to those people who would be looking after the pup be it friends, family or a professional walker before I would then make a decision.
I think it also depends what type of job someone has as well, working full time in a school with school holidays off is completely different to working full time as a uk sales rep, traveling everywhere for long days.
05.07.17 17:28 GMT
Don't rule out breeders who are not Assured breeders, many of us are very good at what we do but choose not to pay the Kennel Club to be part of their scheme. Also it depends on what you mean when you say that the breeder kept you waiting for 5 day before telling you the pups were all sold, did you e-mail or leave a message and were waiting on a reply? It may be that he or she sensed your impatience and decided that you were not right for them or one of their pups. Sometimes it can be very off putting when it seems that potential puppy owners approach with the attitude that you have pups to sell and they want one so it is a done deal, a bit like buying bread in the supermarket. They can choose to sell pups to whoever they want. It may be best to meet and chat with breeders prior to a litter being born and if you are both happy go on their waiting list, when you finally get your puppy it will be worth the wait.
06.07.17 06:30 GMT
> Certainly our only lemon/white boy in our usual tricolours puppies was really quite different. And interestingly he would almost never be seen snuggling up with his black brothers and sisters other than when at the milk bar!
They say it is actually a survival instinct thing, to sleep next to similar colours to blend in. I.e. in a litter of tan puppies and black puppies they will sleep in groups of tans and blacks, and a puppy of different colour from the rest of the litter will sleep by himself. No idea how the puppies are supposed to know what colour they are but people often notice this behaviour.
> No idea how the puppies are supposed to know what colour they are but people often notice this behaviour
I suppose this has to do with the fact that these differently coloured puppies are
different, not because they see a different colour. It's interesting to see that others also notice this going on! I would say that if he nursed and then fell asleep before moving right away, he would more often than not lie against his mum's back foot which was light coloured. When doing a head count (to make sure none was being pushed out) he was often 'missed', giving us a heart attack.
I can't see how colour would affect temperament....
If you start asking around, you will find it's pretty wellknown in pretty much all species of animals. Reds in many species are often the "hot headed" or more active ones. Creams in both cats and hamsters (in particular when longhaired) tend to be the most laid back, etc. The term "naughty tortie" in cats is very true. In Cavaliers the rubies are often less laid back than the other colours. In Papillons I see a definite difference in the red sables to the black and whites or tris -the reds have more of a temper. (Certainly in my dogs anyway - I have got 4 red sables, 4 black and whites, 2 tris and a lemon). Even humans come into it -obviously not that all blondes are less intelligent, but I'm sure we've all heard of or known fiery red heads etc.
They say it is actually a survival instinct thing, to sleep next to similar colours to blend in.
Now that is interesting, makes sense but I'd never heard it before. When I had a lot of cats, I'd find one pile of blues/bluecreams asleep together, another of creams etc and always found it interesting. At one point I had two two tabby/white cats. One an elderly rescued moggy, the other a young pedigree Exotic. They stayed together a lot despite being like night and day in looks other than colour. And the red sable Papillons are definitely a gang, with the black and whites another gang.
I think your dog is a bit spoiled or just too much sleep that's why he has too much energy.
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