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- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 24.05.17 22:31 GMT
Hi, I am about to become a proud owner of a Golden Retriever pup. I will be meeting him at 4 weeks very soon.

I grew up with a Golden as a child and despite having cancer he lived a full, happy and loved life until the age of 15. My father trained him, he was never shown nor was he a working dog. He was family.

I would like some advice please regarding house training? I have read that crate training is all rage right now (or maybe it has been for a long time but we never done so with my childhood pet).

Not only am I interested in advice regarding housebreaking etc I am also interested in the prospect of showing my Golden and doing further training with him.

I am based in Scotland.

Looking forward to hearing from you all and getting some champdog support.

Thank you
- By MamaBas Date 25.05.17 06:57 GMT

> I have read that crate training is all rage right now (or maybe it has been for a long time but we never done so with my childhood pet).


I have to say we have NEVER used a crate to housetrain, if this is what you mean.   We do have crates, and have done since first seeing them being used instead of benching at shows, out in Canada.   However, they were only ever meant to be used as a safe place to put a puppy, to keep them out of mischief, when it's not possible to supervise them.   And for car travel/hotel rooms/showing.   Puppies should be able to run around durin the waking day so their joints and muscles develop as they should.

If you get a crate (recommended for puppy use), set it up where you normally are during the day, cover top and sides and leave the door open.  That way the puppy should start to use it just as any other dog bed.   When you need to leave him, play with him for a while and take him out to empty and then back to his crate with a few treats, shutting the door.   He may complain at first, but as puppies sleep a lot, should settle down for a nap.   Which is when you get other things done!   I never left a puppy shut in a crate for over 2 hours, unless they are still sleeping!   With our Whippet, we went out for groceries, leaving her crated.  I fully expected to hear a racket when we came home - not a bit of it, she was still fast asleep.   We leave the radio on, playing low when we go out (or the TV) btw.

At night, bring the crate into your bedroom so your puppy doesn't feel 'abandoned' - this makes it easier to get up during the night which you will need to do, probably only once.  Try to anticipate him waking up and shouting so he doesn't get the idea he shouts, you react.   We got up around 3 am, having gone to bed around 11 pm.  And up for the new day by 7 am!!    Otherwise puppies will need to be taken out roughly every hour during the day - after each nap immediately, short periods of playing and so on.   Praise, loads, when he empties outside, correct only in the act so he knows what you want, and clean up mistakes without comment.   He'll be watching!   NO PEE PADS!

As for showing, include his breeder in your aims so she suggests a good puppy for you to take forward and assesses him later on - there's no point taking a dog with bad faults into the ring, especially in a breed with big classes.   And find out where your local Ringcraft classes are - you may have to use an obedience class which lets you stack him when they 'sit' etc.   We did this - and at least it gets a puppy used to that kind of environment.

Good luck!
- By Goldenmum [gb] Date 25.05.17 06:57 GMT
Hi, great choice of breed.  The Golden Retriever Club of Scotland Open Show is being held in Alva on Sunday the 11th of June, you could come and meet some of us there and see if showing is of interest. There are some good Ringcraft clubs too, where in Scotland are you?
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 25.05.17 10:52 GMT
MamaBas, I have been doing lots of research and found a website dedicated to Golden Retrievers. This is where I found out about the crate training. It advises that the pup should sleep in there and you should introduce the pup to the crate throughout the day every so often to allow him to become comfortable in it for sleeping. The website states that it becomes "den" like to them and they love it. It also states that it helps the pup housebreak as it makes the pup learn to hold in its bladder better as they don't like to sleep in their mess. As I said previously, my childhood dog was never in a crate he slept in his bed in our kitchen and wasn't aloud up stairs. The website also suggests crating the pup when you go out or if you can't supervise him e.g. Whilst cooking. I'm a bit on the fence to be honest as I have always associated crates as harmful / neglectful.

My friend breeds Jack Russell's and she also advises using crates but she puts the crate with door open in a pen. At one end of the pen there is puppy pads and the other is water bowl. She does this initially (with the puppy pads) until the pup has been fully vaccinated. Were we live (East Dunbartonshire) it is rather rural and has plenty of foxes so although her garden is well fenced she doesn't want to risk the puppies going outside until fully vaccinated. I think this sounds kinder than just the crate but I fear that due to the size of the breed the pen and crate would take up an enormous amount of room.

my dad house trained our dog with news papers, moving them and decreasing them toward the backdoor until there was no paper left. Then our Golden would bark at the backdoor when he needed out.

I have two children and I wasn't wanting to allow the dog upstairs either nor on the furniture, I don't know if that's just a mind set as that's how my father trained our pet?

Thank you very much for your reply. I appreciate it. I just want to be fully prepared for this little bundle of joy coming home in July and I want to give him the best life ever!
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 25.05.17 11:06 GMT
Hi Goldenmum, thank you for your response. I live in East Dumbartonshire so roughly an hour away from Alva. I would definitely be interested in coming along to meet some of you and to see what it is all about. I don't get my pup until July, so is ok to come along without a dog? Will you be attending?

Where in Scotland are you? How many Goldens do you have? Are you able to advise me where to go for classes? Or how to go about looking?

Thanks again for replying.
- By tatty-ead [gb] Date 25.05.17 11:40 GMT
it becomes "den" like to them and they love it
Current GSD has TWO crates, one upstairs in the 'spare' bedroom I use as a workshop and one downstairs. The only time the door is shut is when I have the front door standing open to bring shopping in etc or occasionally if we have strange people who don't like dogs in (we don't encourage that type of visitors :lol:)
Zuma has quite a few naps in them and will happily go 'in your box' when asked.
I don't know how old your children are but it will give you a place for pup to settle if they have friends round especially younger ones who run round and over excite a pup, especially if you have a rule that no-one disturbs pup if he is in there.
I have no conection with the firm but the crates I have came from 'Dog Health' and are brilliant as they have an 'up & over' door with a top hinge as well as the side hinged door and save an awful lot of space when the door is open
- By Goldenmum [gb] Date 25.05.17 12:19 GMT
Yes come along without the dog you will be made very welcome.  I will be there.  I live in Dumbarton and between my mum and I we have 7 Goldens.  I go to classes at Paisley on a Wednesday and Dumbarton on a Thursday (I am involved with obedience on a Thursday so only get a wee while at Ringcraft if I am lucky). Is it one of Gloria's pups you are getting?
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 25.05.17 13:18 GMT
Hi tatty-ead, can I ask what GSD is?

Do your dogs always sleep in their crate? I'm just not sure what to do. Do you have any research recommendations? My breeder does not use crates.

Thank you for the recommendation, I shall have a check on their website.

My children are 5 and 2 so I do like your rule idea of not disturbing the pup when he's in the crate / bed.

Thanks for your reply
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 25.05.17 13:25 GMT
Your actually not too far from me then Goldenmum! If you wouldn't mind sending me the information for the classes? I was recommended wizard of paws in the south side of Glasgow for general training but it's a distance in comparison to Dumbarton and Paisley.

How do I go about purchasing entry to the show in Alva? This might sound so lame but is there a dress code or anything I should be aware of before hand?

Wow, 7 Goldens! That's impressive.

No I'm not getting one of Gloria's pups, I'm getting mine from a lady in Aberdeen.
- By Jodi [gb] Date 25.05.17 14:54 GMT Upvotes 1
I used a crate with my latest golden pup for the first time, prior to that the pup/young dog went into the utility room during the night or when we were out until they were safely past the chewing stage.

I made the crate an inviting place to go in to, chucked treats in there for her to find amongst the bedding, fed her in there and didn't shut the door until she was happily going in and out and having a nap in the crate.

At bedtime I would give her a couple of dog biscuits as her reward for going into the crate and into her bed and given a Goldens appietite for food, she was more then keen to go and would even start nagging me to give her the treats early in the evening by going into the crate and sitting there looking at me expectantly. All this from a 11 week old pup.

Yes it helps to speed up toilet training I would say, but don't leave your dog in there for so long that it has no option but to eliminate in the crate, always make sure you take your pup out to the toilet regularly especially after waking, eating and playtime. When the pup wees/poo's use a cue word as the puppy is eliminating, something like 'busy, busy'  or 'be good'. Soon the pup will understand that when you use the the cue word that you want it to toilet, really useful with an adult dog that you want to go and toilet before you go out.

Good luck with your new golden pup, they are lovely dogs to have in your life. We wouldn't be without ours.
- By Goldenmum [gb] Date 25.05.17 15:21 GMT
If you are on Facebook both clubs are on there Paisley shows as PaisleyringGraft - it can be hard graft lol. Just come along to the show, don't worry about entry, you only need to enter in advance if you are bringing a dog. No dress code, exhibitors will tend to dress reasonably smart but no code for those watching. If it is a nice day we will be outside.  Does the breeder of your puppy show?
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 25.05.17 15:26 GMT
Hi Jodi,

Thank you for your reply. It's good to hear a positive review. Do you keep the crate downstairs or did you take it up to your room at night?

The website I have been getting information from states not to feed in the crate but it sounds like it's worked a treat (pardon the pun) for you.

How big is your crate? And where did you purchase it? Do you close the door at bedtime? How long do you let your Golden be in the crate before taking him out to eliminate? I understand that as the dog grows the bladder does so also meaning they can go on for longer. How old is tourney crated pup?

In regards to elimination, I'm unsure if I want to take my pup outside until he has had all his vaccinations. Our breeder is giving the initial vaccination before we take him home at 8 weeks. As far as I'm aware the second is at 10 weeks. I'm just worried with the amount of foxes around here and the neighbours cats come in to our back garden frequently. Our garden has reinforced fencing around the whole perimeter and is 7ft in height but the foxes and the cats still manage to get in. What are your views on this? I know many say after initial jag backyard fine as long as no access for other dogs but what about the foxes? I don't want to risk my pups health and if that means having two weeks of puppy pads that doesn't bother me.

I'm new to this, training etc. I have had a Golden but I grew up with him and all these responsibilities that I face now with my own pup I have zero experience as my dad trained my childhood pet. I just want to be prepared as best as possible and I can't wait to shower him with love! I'm also excited for my daughters as my dog really was my best friend. So much happy memories to be made.

Thanks again for replying.

I honestly appreciate all the feedback, advice, ideas etc from all of you. I respect your opinions as you have the experience and a wealth of knowledge that I need to gain.
- By tatty-ead [gb] Date 25.05.17 16:01 GMT
GSD = German Shepherd Dog,

He naps in there in the day but at night he usually sleeps on the landing or at the bottom of stairs in the hall - that way he can keep a check on exactly where anyone is :smile:

My children are 5 and 2 so I do like your rule idea of not disturbing the pup when he's in the crate / bed.   Children get time and space apart from bitey excited pup and equally pup gets time and space apart from noisy rushy children

Echoing what Jodi said about 'inviting place' using treats, Zuma had a habit - as do all pups - of grabbing 'things' and taking them off to chew so we taught him that no we would NOT chase him but if he took it into his crate then we would do 'swappsey' for a treat, you may find this worth trying in view of your childrens ages. it worked to the extent that several years ago he was wombling round the garden but suddenly came rushing into his crate..............He had picked up a very large Hedgehog, just plonked it down by his feet and then sat waiting with it in the crate for me to swap it for his treat !!! :lol: :lol:.............no hedgehogs were harmed in the making of this training demo
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 25.05.17 16:05 GMT
Goldenmum, yes I am on Facebook so I shall have a look out for the groups and join their pages.

Looking forward to the 11th. I've only just started thinking about showing / obedience since I've been researching. I hadn't intended on doing it initially but it is intriguing me. Because of this I hadn't asked about the Dam but the Sire comes from a long line of showers, the Sire is from gloi retrievers down in York.
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 25.05.17 18:34 GMT Edited 25.05.17 18:37 GMT
OMG tatty-ead, the hedgehog story gave me a giggle and slight fear
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 25.05.17 18:46 GMT
I don't know why my reply keeps getting lost. Thanks everyone for their input. Can I ask what's the best way to tackle first night? My dad slept on the couch with Kyle lying in his bed beside the couch on his first night.

Goldenmum, I can't find the groups on FB, is the paisley one private?

Thanks
- By Jodi [gb] Date 25.05.17 19:26 GMT
For the first couple of nights I had my pup in a box beside the bed so I could comfort her and take her out to the loo, then she stayed in the crate downstairs. She had a bit of a winge, but soon settled. She was dry and clean overnight within a few days and any accidents in the house were soley down to me not noticing the signs that she needed to go or not taking her out regularly enough. Never bothered with puppy pads as they will confuse a puppy I to thinking that it's ok to toilet indoors. I took her out into the garden the first day she was home to have an explore. I daresay cats and foxes have visited my garden as we are out in the country but there were no problems with that, puppies will carry some maternal antibodies.

I used the crate at night and when we went out until I was sure she could be safely left and not chew anything. This could take up to a year with some pups, but mine was crate free by about nine months

Make sure that the innoculation that the breeder is doing is the same manufacturer that your vet stocks. If it is different then your vet will insist on starting the innoculation program again.

There is a very good book which I think will help you through your pups first year. It's called 'ThePerfect Puppy' by Gwen Bailey. It can be downloaded from Amazononto a tablet or computer if you have the Kindle App.
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 25.05.17 21:51 GMT
Thank you Jodi, what kind of box did you put her in? Did you put a blanket inside? How often did you take her to the loo through the night? When you say signs what do you mean?

I shall ask my breeder about the vaccination tomorrow. I haven't yet registered with a vet, should I be doing this soon? If the vet does decide to repeat the vaccine process then how will that effect my pup? And will this mean no back garden until my vet has completed both injections?

I had a look at Amazon, was going to buy a paper back copy but delivery is 2 months! Will need to download the kindle app.

I really appreciate all your help.

Thank you very much
- By furriefriends [gb] Date 25.05.17 22:03 GMT Upvotes 3
Take her out in your arms to get her used to the world .back garden is fine. I would ask the breeder not to vaccinate then it can all be done by your vet. I don't like vaccines being done by the breeder unless I am sure it won't mean my vet will start again . I wouldn't want anymore than needed
- By Tommee Date 25.05.17 22:21 GMT
Puppies shouldn't really be vaccinated without having a titre test(which can be done in house at your vets)first. Vaccinating before 10 weeks can be nullified by maternal immunity plus only one vaccination is required for dogs over 10 weeks of age.

Please don't give your puppy Lepto 4, can result in horrendous reactions especially in puppies
- By Harley Date 25.05.17 22:50 GMT
Fabulous choice of puppy - but them I am biased towards GRs and have one myself.

Personally I would never use paper training or puppy pads - housetraining is all about teaching your pup that outside is the place to go when it needs to toilet. Paper and pads mean the dog can go indoors which is the exact opposite of where you actually want the pup to go so I find it much easier to teach them that right from the very start. My GR was the easiest dog ever to housetrain :smile:

I took him out at very regular intervals - on waking, after eating or drinking, after any short session of training, playing etc. I put him on his lead every time to start with so he didn't get the chance to run around and play - gardens are magical places for pups and leaves, birds, the wind etc are major distractions when you are a small puppy. I rewarded every time he performed - for him it was a very small food treat - and gradually introduced a word to go with the action - I use the word "busy". Once he had associated the word with the action and reliably understood the action and the word went together I would use the word the second he started to go and gradually turned it from a marker for the action into a command for the action (hope that makes sense). He learnt to go on command which is really useful especially if you are going to be going out or travelling in the car etc.

You have to be consistent - don't just open the door and let your pup go out on its own - the pup needs to be praised every time it performs and you can only do that by being out there with your pup. Ignore any accidents just clean them up quickly and quietly without comment - a solution of biological washing powder works really well. Be vigilant and look for signs that your pup needs to go out such as sniffing, circling, going towards the door etc and make sure you respond to those signs. The more consistent you are the quicker the process - you need to set your pup up to succeed :smile: My boy was reliably housetrained in a relatively short time. When they are small they will need to go out in the night too - I used to set my alarm for the middle of the night. I would put his lead on, take him out, praise him for his efforts and then pop him straight back in his bed and he soon learnt that the excursion into the garden in the middle of the night was just for a toilet break and not for a game. I gradually moved the alarm clock wake up to later and later until he was ready to go all night without needing to toilet.

When he was very young I made a little chart and recorded the times/events when he was taken out and what he did which I found really useful for timing his next visit to the garden and helping to prevent accidents indoors.

Enjoy your pup and don't expect too much from him/her too soon :smile: My GR is fast approaching 12 years old and I have no idea where all those years have gone but he is the most amazing companion and one of my extra special "heart dogs" :smile:
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 25.05.17 23:13 GMT
Hi Tommee,

Thank you for your advise regarding vaccinations. If I don't get him vaccinated by my breeder then how will I get him out to toilet? I haven't yet paid a deposit, doing so when I meet him in 2 weeks time. When should I register with a vet? And if the breeder does not vaccinate should I have an appointment ready for him on our return home with him? He will be 8 weeks when we take him home. What if the breeder refuses to not vaccinate? They are also worming him and they are chipping him. I'm not entirely sure about the process of chipping but should his chip not be recorded to my home address? Sorry, all these questions just keep popping into my head.

What is so wrong with Lepto 4? I shall find out which vaccine my breeder intends on using.

Thanks again
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 25.05.17 23:18 GMT
Great advice Harley, thank you!

Did you crate train your pup?

Goldens are amazing, my childhood pet was a golden and he was my best friend. He lived to the grand old age of 15 despite cancer. Such a happy, loyal, intelligent and loving dog. Still miss him loads and he's been gone now for over a decade. He certainly holds a piece of my heart and he always will
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 25.05.17 23:21 GMT
Thank you furriefriends,

You and Tommee have put a lot more information to me. What is best to do? Should I contact the vet which I will be registering and find out what they intend to use and then confer with my breeder? I don't want to cause any more pain than what is necessary to him. Food for thought indeed.
- By suejaw Date 26.05.17 05:09 GMT Upvotes 1
Vaccinations and what to do and when to give them if at all is a subject which is very contentious with some.
Best thing is to to have a read up on it all when to vaccinate. Some say maternal antibodies are in puppies for a period of time so they don't need vaccinating until thwy are older. Some say lepto 4 is killing dogs. There is info out there to confirm and contradict all these things.
At 8 weeks I would want to get my own puppy vaccinated and yes I start at 8 weeks and get the end one at 10 weeks. Never been an issue for me and no I don't give lepto 4. I asked to remain on lepto 2. I've done my research and while number are low for reactions to L4 there are enough and my research to only want to give L2.

I would say with anything research and make your own decisions. Some vet practices want to give your puppy everything, some have pulled the L4 due to reactions so it's all your call at the end of the day what you feel comfortable doing.
- By furriefriends [gb] Date 26.05.17 08:20 GMT Edited 26.05.17 08:24 GMT
Agree with Sue the subject of vaccines is very controversial. I would.speak to a couple of vets now and go with one u are comfortable with .perhaps.someone u know has a dog and can recommend . Usually u register when u arrive with you pup having made an appointment.  I would do as sue  says and ask the breeder to let u sort all the vaccines .I do have my own thoughts about how I do these now and would vaccinate around 14 weeks but that's not everyone thoughts  .it might help to look up the recommedations  by the bva .British veterinary association . As far as lepto goes I wouldn't have it neither lepto 2 or 4 , neither would I have kennel.cough .but again that's personal choice and u need to research .  I've used crates in my last few dogs and  they are a real boon . The dogs learn to go into them for peace and quiet and they have become e their dens.however they are not shut in them for hours and as adults not at all. There is lots ots of info.out there on how to do that in a positive way. Mine are big dogs so I don't move crates around as I don't have the space .nightumes I had to leave them downstairs but if u can have them by your bed I think that's best even if it means a smaller crate while.theu are litttle
- By Jodi [gb] Date 26.05.17 08:23 GMT Upvotes 1
Agree with Suejaw on innoculations, I've always started pups at 8/9 weeks and have had no problems.

I've always taken them out into the garden straightaway even before any innoculations, I wouldn't wory unduly about foxes and cats perhaps visiting, cats and dogs are unrelated and rarely transfer diseases between each other, same with foxes to a large degree although I exclude mange from that. My advice would be to use your garden for your pup to toilet right away, don't use puppy pads as it will confuse your pup and prolong toilet training.
I would rather the breeder didn't start the innoculation process and leave it up to you when you bring your pup home. Usually it's best to have a day or two at home with the pup then take to the vet for a check up and first innoculation. It's what I've always done.

The box I used was an ordinary cardboard box with a couple of towels in the bottom. This pup was clean overnight straightaway and within two days slept right through until 7am. To make up for it she didn't sleep much during the day.:roll:

The sort of signs that a puppy may show when needing to toilet is sniffing the floor, searching for the right spot or turning in circles (usually means a poo is on the way).
- By MamaBas Date 26.05.17 08:38 GMT
Just to add that provided you don't leave a puppy in a crate for long enough that it has no alternative but to mess in there, over time the puppy learns that you will be letting him out regularly, and so will start to learn to hold.   Until the puppy is physically able to hold however, it won't.  As said I haven't had to resort to crates for housetraining.
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 26.05.17 09:23 GMT
Suejaw, thank you for your reply. Lots to think about and more research to be done. I should have known there would be a little controversy with inoculations, just as there are with children.

Speaking with my dad, the breeder gave first vaccine to Kyle at 6 or 8 weeks and then we took him home, he seems to think that his second one was at 10 or 12 week? It was so long ago that maybe he's forgotten or times have changed.

If I do my own research and decide which vaccines I want can I ask the vet to order it in if it's not the one they usually provide?

Thanks again.
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 26.05.17 09:35 GMT Upvotes 1
Furriefriends, thanks for the input. Can I ask which vaccine you opted for?

I shall have a look at the BVA recommendations.

In regards to a vet, I was going to use the one that we used with my childhood dog. As I mentioned previously Kyle had cancer and they were just amazing with him. I have a friend who uses them now and still recommends. There's a small animal hospital (Glasgow University) near my parents that I might contact for advise. They may well have a vet service as well as emergency care.

I have been a little on the fence regarding crates but there does seem to be benefit and they are not cruel as I thought they were (obviously if you use them in a positive manner) I don't have room for several crates and I don't want him going upstairs so I think I'll sleep on the couch next to him for the first night or two.

Thanks again
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 26.05.17 09:48 GMT
Thanks again for the advice Jodi. I think initially I shall sleep downstairs with him as I don't want him upstairs.

What crate did you use for your golden? Did you get an adult size and put a divider in so it was the appropriate size for her? I've read that putting your pup in an adult sized crate allows them room to toilet? I don't want to have to buy two or even three crates as he grows. I intend to use the crate initially for bed time, naps and when I can't supervise him i.e. Bathing the kids. I shall use it until he is responsible to be left out of it while I nip to get a food shop in etc. Once he is out of the chewing stage and he's more mature I shall give him the option of crate or bed without crate, he may well prefer his "den".

Can I also ask about transportation? Again, going back many moons ago when we picked up Kyle to take him home I just held him in my lap. My parents were in the front and myself and my brother and sister were in the back. We got a right good giggle when he had a piddle on my brownie uniform
- By Tommee Date 26.05.17 09:50 GMT Edited 26.05.17 09:52 GMT
Few vets will be fully truthful about vaccinosis

There are too many dogs dying/being ill after receiving Lepto 4 & Lepto 2. There are multiple servors(strains)of Leptospirosis.& these vaccines only cover 4 / 2 respectively.

It is a scientific fact that immunity from the mother can last up to 10 weeks & beyond. A friend of mine is a vet in the Netherlands & their routine is to titre test ALL dogs before vaccination. I cannot understand why the BVA accept titre testing for rabies but not other vaccines. Nothing to do with the huge markup on vaccines of course.

Have a read of Jean Dodds advice & BTW is far better qualified than anyone posting on this site to give advice on vaccinations
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 26.05.17 09:58 GMT
MamaBas, can you please explain how you trained your pup? As in getting him to stay in his bed at night etc? Kyle had his bed in our kitchen and my folks would lock the kitchen door to contain him in the kitchen. My parents kitchen is very large and they kept his water bowl out for him.

The layout of my house is kind of open plan in the sense that to get to the kitchen or the conservatory we have to go through our family room and dinning room. This is where I intend my pup to sleep. I can close off the door to the kitchen, the conservatory and the hall. This will allow him full reign of the family room and dining room as it's just one large room. The problem I face is that he could chew the place to shreds at night. My kitchen is not big enough to house him when he is older but could do as a pup, but then you really don't know when the chewing stage will end.

The thing that puts me off the crate as well is not having access to water. I know that drinking increases chances of needing to urinate more frequently but I'd hate to think he's being dehydrated.

Thanks again for your in put.
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 26.05.17 10:17 GMT
Thanks Tommee for the references to search upon. Glad I posted when I did! Got so much to learn! Thankfully pup is only 2.5 weeks just now so I have time to get my facts and make my own decision about my own pup.
- By furriefriends [gb] Date 26.05.17 11:23 GMT
mine always  had water in their crates. no need to remove it and I don't believe in restricting water,you can get attachments for the bowl to the side of the crate so puppy isnt paddling

To crate train I started by throwing treats in the crate and praising when they went in. Didn't shut the door but did this many times a day. If they were going to sleep I would pop in the crate and leave them. At night I did shut the crate an usually they would settle quickly. Our crate has vet bed and a cuddly toy in it as well . make it a safe fun place to be. i also add a word for it. ege bed so in the future they will go to the crate on command if needed
I  also practised for a minute or so when they were in the crate with the door shut. Only opening if they weren't fussing even if that was only for a second or two. all except one happily took to the crates with no problem. the one that didn't oddly my most recent pup I gave up . she still at 6 doesn't like being in one room away from me unless it her choice
if at least at the beginning you can have her in your room by your bed even if you use a big box I would go for that at night and downstairs crate during the day.
For me the bonus of crate training was that I knew they were safe and I wouldn't come home to a chewed house and potentially ill pup form chewing something that could hurt it. also if people were around who didn't like dogs they will happily go into their crates or if you have young chiren or say are cooking and don't want a dog under foot . you could of course train to go to a bed in any case.

the flip side is that other people don't like crates at  all, choice is yours . either way it wont harm your dog if used properly
- By Jodi [gb] Date 26.05.17 15:42 GMT
Sorry a bit late in replying, we're away and can't always get internet.

I used a more or less adult sized crate straightaway, didn't use a divider it didn't seem to make much difference as she never toileted in there. I also used old towels and things rather then a nice new (chewable) bed, it wouldn't matter if towels got pee'ed on and they are easy to wash.

When bringing the pup home I sat in the back and cuddled her as it was only a journey of an hour. Some people borrow a cat carrier or small dog carrier.
- By Harley Date 26.05.17 16:51 GMT
I used a large pen for him when he was very little and always used a custom made car crate - I never travel my dogs loose in the car and have a divided crate for two of the dogs and an additional crate for the third dog.

The pen meant he was in a safe area when I was cooking, mowing the lawn etc but he was able to still be a part of the family. The pen was in my kitchen which has a tiled floor so easy to keep clean although he only ever had two accidents indoors and both times were my fault for not paying attention  He slept in the pen at night and was his safe area during the day when we were around - door always open unless he needed to be shut in for the type of reasons shown above. Water was never witheld from him and I believe it is now illegal to not allow a dog access to water at all times.

The other thing that you might not be aware of is that enforced exercise (such as on lead walks) needs to be managed carefully. When researching breeds a lot of them will say about regular exercise and how some breeds can need up to 2 hours off lead exercise a day but they often forget to say that this is for adult dogs not puppies. I have always gone by the rule of 5 minutes exercise on lead for every month of their life so at four months they might have 20 minute lead walks twice a day. At 12 months most dogs are ready to take more exercise but just be aware that GRs don't really mature physically until they are around 18 months old so 4 hour hikes every day at a year old wouldn't be great but it wont hurt them to do a really long walk every now and then. The exercise rule only refers to walks - when the pup doesn't really have a choice but to keep walking with you. Choosing to run around in the garden is different - most pups will have a mad few minutes then stop for a break and then go back to running around. So they can choose when to run and when to stop unlike a lead walk.
- By JeanSW Date 26.05.17 23:02 GMT

> The thing that puts me off the crate as well is not having access to water. I know that drinking increases chances of needing to urinate more frequently but I'd hate to think he's being dehydrated.<br />


Just to remind you that it is now illegal in this country to withhold water from any pet.  So you do need water in the crate.
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 26.05.17 23:33 GMT
Thank you furriefriends, great advice and information as usual.

Really do appreciate it!
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 26.05.17 23:37 GMT
Thank you Jodi, I hope your having a good holiday. I really appreciate the time you and everyone else has taken to respond to me and for all the sound advice.

We are driving to Aberdeen which is a 3 hour journey so may be best to get a wee carrier.

Can you recommend where to get a crate I'm just wanting to do a wee bit of comparisons to see what will work best for us.

Thanks again
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 26.05.17 23:44 GMT
Thanks Harley, can you advise where to look for a travel car crate. You say it's custom made so does that mean that it only fits in your own car? Is it positioned in the car permenantly?

I have read up on the 5 minute rule so will go with that. Would you suggest getting him used to the lead prior to getting his final vaccine? Just taking him a wee wander around my garden?

I remember Kyle going crazy in our garden, he would do massive figure of 8s around my parents garden. It was hilarious!
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 26.05.17 23:59 GMT
Hi JeanSW,

It has become clear after setting up this thread that the Golden Retriever website I have been taking notes from is terribly wrong. It refers to having no food or water in the crate, it's an American website so maybe their laws are different? That was one of the main reasons why I was put off crate training. As I mentioned previously my childhood GR had access to water 24/7. I also referred to my friend who uses a crate and a pen with her Jack Russell's, where she leaves the crate door open and there is water available in the pen. I thought that her idea was great but it's not an ideal concept for a golden retriever, I just wouldn't really have the space for it.

I hope you do not think that I have been contemplating dehydrating my pup through the night. You will see from my other comments my concerns, my thoughts and beliefs about it. Thank you though for notifying me of this. Law or no law I would not withhold water.

I shall be discontinuing my research on this particular website and shall find something more substantial. Do you have any recommendations? I have downloaded the perfect puppy which was recommended to me on this thread. I am now in search of another website or book which is reliable and which is based on raising Golden Retrievers only.

Thanks
- By JeanSW Date 27.05.17 00:21 GMT

> <br />I hope you do not think that I have been contemplating dehydrating my pup through the night.


Good gracious NO!  Not at all - but you have to remember that there are a lot of people who read this site, but never post.  The statement regarding The Animal Welfare Act regarding pets is for the information of everyone who is browsing.  I think it's fair to say that an awful lot of people won't be aware.

I advise my puppy owners to get "The Perfect Puppy" it is a very, very good read.  I agree that US views vary a great deal to UK sites.  We just have different laws.  I can't advise you on breed specific websites, but Champdogs has members that are experienced in GR's and they may be able to advise you of sites that give reliable GR information .

I do hope that you don't think that I was 'picking' on  you, my post was aimed to be informative.  :grin:
- By Jennavieve [gb] Date 27.05.17 00:50 GMT Edited 27.05.17 07:03 GMT
Not at all JeanSW, I was just concerned that you may have only read the small snippet regarding no water in crate and I would hate for anyone to think ill of me.

It's a good thing that you posted. I was not aware of the law but like I said previously if there was no law I would not be withholding anyway.

I am new to this forum and I appreciate everyone who has commented. And you are totally right, I had been "lurking in the shadows" before I posted so yes people can "read and run" and pick up the wrong information.

I'm just so angry that I have literally been spending so much time on this website, taking down hand written notes as I am intending on having a wee reference book on training for all my family to use. My husband has never had a dog and so I thought it would be beneficial for him and also for myself to have references and advice to hand rather than scrolling through huge books or through google when we need to know how to deal with a certain situation there and then.

I would like to advise that some of the information I found on this website has been echoed in this thread but nothing regarding the crate training. This website is named ************. Here is a direct quote from the website "Do not feed or water your puppy while he is in the crate. I can not believe the people that advise doing this. It totally flies in the face of logic!" It then goes on to say "Putting water inside for him to drink, is the same as begging him to then pee in his cage!" It is written by someone who seemingly owns 7 Goldens Retrievers. I truly thought getting some first hand knowledge off someone would be beneficial, seemingly it is not.
- By MamaBas Date 27.05.17 07:48 GMT
This water in a crate is a contentious subject.   Fact is my two, who because I have to rent, don't have a big enough kitchen to leave crates up all the time in there and because I really prefer to have them in with me at night, even if they are older now, sleep in their crates in my bedroom from around 10.30pm to just before 7 am WITH NO WATER.   They sleep through (last night was an exception with an horrendous thunderstorm) and I see nothing to suggest thay NEED water - they certainly don't dive for the newly filled bowls when let out first thing.    And believe me, I'm hot about changing their water (Bassets drool) regularly throughout the day.
- By furriefriends [gb] Date 27.05.17 10:21 GMT
Bespoke car crates there are quite a few .barjo ,barnesbrooke who I got mine from are just two but others will suggest more or u can Google .dog guards and tail gate guard are another option .or a crate that will go in your car and be used in doors .for a dog of the size of a goldie I would soon get fed up moving crates so would go for one indoors and one in the car .u also need to consider with movable crates  how they would be anchoredin the car the other option is a seatbelt harness .u need to be careful if u use this and make sure that it's strong enough to hold in an accident  there are a couple now that are crash tested . As for getting indoor  crates I bought mine on  eBay really cheaply and have them in all sizes from gsd to toy breeed. Pets at home is worth looking at for ideas of price and quality but again eBay is your friend ime .99p was my buy of the century for a savic toy  breed crate bespoke car crates are usually only for one car and either so big they fit without anchoring as mine is .I only have a jazz and it fits the hatch area or u can have them screwed into the car
- By furriefriends [gb] Date 27.05.17 10:58 GMT Edited 27.05.17 11:08 GMT
Sorry I missed your question regarding which vaccines.i do l.i will only do core vaccines so that won't include lepto either 2 or 4 or kennel cough.i also dont booster at all . Next pup I would.titre after one vaccine just to confirm immunity .if no immunity the likelihood is that the dog is a non responder and further vaccine won't give immunity  anyway  it will however be gained from natural.exposure .some people prefer to use homeopathic nosodes but although I do use homeopathy at times I don't use nosodes on a separate topic you might want to consider pet insurance although pup should come  with 4 weeks ?cover through the breeder and then u can decide what u want to do.regarding other countries I do find that t many things that may be accepted elsewhere are often very different to in the UK .animal welfare here‚Äč is not perfect but it is often in advance of some others . I tend to stick to UK sites
- By MamaBas Date 27.05.17 11:42 GMT
Crates for the car.   We have a standard 36" one for my Whippet and it sits cross-wise behind the front seats, anchored using my old benching chains hooked into the back seat anchor points.   I'm always concerned that being light, she/the crate could fly in a crash.   When travelling locally, my Basset travels in the back, behind her crate.   If we are going long distance, we use his slightly bigger crate.  

I haven't used a purpose built car crate preferring to be able to use the same crate, wherever needed (much as my Whippet crate stays in the car as I have another of the same size for the house).

To go back to the water in crate - when we travel I use a non-spill water bowl in their crate(s).   Overnight in my room, I'd know if my hounds were restless for some reason, and would always react.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 27.05.17 12:29 GMT

> The thing that puts me off the crate as well is not having access to water


you would/should still put a waterbowl (non tip or non spill or one that clips on) in the crate.
- By monkeyj [gb] Date 27.05.17 16:57 GMT Edited 27.05.17 17:00 GMT

> This water in a crate is a contentious subject.


Another example: my dogs don't drink water, simple as that, ever, unless they are out on a reasonably warm day hiking/running/playing.

The reason they don't drink water is because they eat natural foods (raw meats, veggies, diary, some cooked grain) twice a day, and to each of these two meals I add about half a cup of water to make the consistency soft and squashy. There is absolutely no point for me to leave water in their crate, unless I want to give them another toy to play with (some of mine love to splash, which they do even with a small hanging bucket!)
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