Champdogs Information Exchange
I am trying to find the cause of constant Wet Eczema, (and endless antibiotics, which the girls are becoming resistant to),and so am going to try an elimination diet. I have been feeding Nutriment or Natural Instinct complete duck, so to start with am just going to feed meat. I phoned a few raw food companies, and have been given varying advice. One has suggested to try organic, but only stock products with more than one protein. Another only stocks organic beef, and organic chicken. The third company are going to email me. If I go down the single protein route what would you recommend? (I am not sure that turkey, or chicken are the way forward). Just hoping for some helpful input. Oh, and I have two with the same problem, (litter sisters), but no other siblings affected. Should I try a different protein on each? Off to the vet this afternoon, again.
If you feed completes The Dog's Butchers and do 4-5 single protein completes and are very good quality. The best Lamb is often recommended for the first protein that it can take 6 - or 8 weeks on one protein
03.05.17 12:37 GMT
Thanks Debbo198, I have previously used The Dog's Butchers, and sadly could not always get what I needed to order. I do however take on board 'lamb'
Thank you Merrypaws. Just back from my vet, and she has suggested giving them a protein that they have never had before, such as venison, but then said to give them brown rice, or paste with it! But paleoridgeraw do some very varied things, will contact them tomorrow for advice.
I understand your frustration, Chipmunk. I've had similar problems with my now 'ex' supplier, Raw Feeding Lancs, that I've used for over 2 years -who've actually only just started supplying some TDBs that I'd been waiting for ages for. The 2 dogs I have now are only small & tiny so I'm not considered a money maker for them & have been blocked for expressing concern over the price increases - I actually saved about £5 by ordering the whole lamb tripes direct from Paleo Ridge instead & that included courier charges. Sorry for going on about it - it's still a bit sore especially after being loyal to RFL and wanting to support a local business.
I've by no means heard anything like this about TDB and I'm on several raw groups. Have you joined their Facebook group - TDBs? You can ask questions on there - and not get banned ;) !! There's also a number of suppliers around the country that may deliver direct to you or courier. I believe Scruffles has a wide range of raw foods and courier charges aren't too bad.
I do know that they deliberately don't stock some meats at different times of year eg venison can be too fatty at times. I just think it's worth exploring more.
Can I also suggest you join the Facebook group BARF UK - it's my go to group - actually even more than here now. There's lots of experienced people on there and even a guide to elimination diets in the files.
Failing that Furriefriends on here has a lot of experience and knowledge on elimination diets. I wish you well.
Venison is also a good choice, as is rabbit, I'd just make sure that you can get the 80:10:5:5 from the same animal, including tripe - I'm waiting to try y boys on venison tripe - nom nom :0
03.05.17 23:20 GMT
03.05.17 23:29 GMT
As debbo says use a single protein of meat offal and bone nothing else for 6 to 8 weeks then reintroduce one protein at a time.for about a week each time any reactions to back to your original protein for a week or two untill things settle.alao remember there could also be environmental allergens at okay so u may not get perfect results .for.those u will need bloods and probably specialist help to treat
Rabbit is another good one to use as a base protein .the problem with venison is getting offal and bone as for.6 weeks u will need all.the components of.a raw diet or you will likely get some tummy problems . especially without bone. I would.advise not adding anything else than the meat offal.and bone
One it's not required and two.all.you do is add extra variables which makes your life harder.tdb is an excellent supplier particularly.for Elimination diet and or ks also is.worth considering but i wouldnt uae the more exotic meats.as.you can't usually get all.the bits you need .I would.do the same for both dogs having done thiamu self on two together it's makes long task a bit easier.
Thanks Debbo, and Furriefriends, very informative. I am already a FB Barf UK member, so have just read the file on Elimination Diets. Now to find a supplier who can regularly supply the required single protein, as will need about 1.2kg per day!
An elimination diet means feeding the dog something he's never had before, eg. fish/potato. There are many complete diets with this, like Arden Gange Sensitive. You won't see an immediate improvement because it can take weeks for what's hitting the system badly, comes out. If you check the AG website, and see the reports from those who use this, it may help. Once you do get an improvement (you could make a fish and potato diet yourself, but it won't have all the 'extras'), you then gradually add some of the previous food and see what happens. You may find you stick with AG Sensitive!
ps I may have missed something in your replies, as I've not read all of them
04.05.17 09:08 GMT
04.05.17 09:12 GMT
The article in the files was written from elminatiin diets as directed by a specialist. Mamabaa is right about using a novel protein but as I found that wasn't possible given the wide range mine eat and needing bone offal and meat from same animal so I used one I has not fed often and is generally low allergen to most dogs. If u choose to use kibble.it is very trial and error due to the number of other things in them even if very small amounts and not always listed. This increases the variables u are dealing with and why many use hypoallergenic kibble.difficult to go to kibble.if.u are raw feeder.i don't and please i stayed raw
he dogs butcher is probably best for suitable.single protein completes and in 1kg bags. It's one I trust to get the ratios right with no funny extras
Thanks Mamabas, but I would prefer to stay with a raw diet.
04.05.17 11:06 GMT
So have just ordered TDB raw single protein from Scruffles, as TDB are away until the 23/5. Thanks everyone for the information, and advice. I will let you know how we get on.
04.05.17 15:02 GMT
Do you girls play fight with each other or do lots of mouthing? It has been said and my vets said the same thing when one of mine a few years ago kept getting bouts that this often triggered hotspots. I was advised to not allow them to do this if possible and since then others have said the same
No they don't play fight, tbh they just tolerate one another.
05.05.17 09:25 GMT
An elimination diet cannot be effectively done with a complete dry food as there are too many variables: things could be added to source which are not declared on the packaging, or the dog may be allergic to one of the other ingredients in there, including nutritional additives. Raw or home cooked is far more effective as you are preparing from scratch and know exactly what your dog is eating so you have full contol over it.
AG sensitive, as an example already given, has 17 ingredients, several of which are common allergens:
Potato (42%), ocean white fish
meal (26%), beet pulp, chicken
oil, linseed, chicken
, whole dried egg powder
, fish oil
, prebiotic FOS, prebiotic MOS, cranberries, yucca extract, glucosamine, MSM, chondroitin, nucleotides.
And the dog could react to any or more than one of the other ingredients. On my most allergic dog's list of allergens is linseed oil and chicken oil, both of which are in this food. It's not all about the big ingredients. I have tried to work out her full list through different kibbles and it simply didn't work. Processed food in itself can be an issue too - for example some dogs react to chicken kibble but are fine with fresh chicken.
Agree Nikita which is why vets tend to use hypoallergenic kibbles unless u already raw feed or you have a vet that will promote raw .a rare vet in the main
Be careful with that link there are some curious comments some of which are incorrect incorrect without other info
Thanks for the advice, but only feed RAW here, and have ordered from TDB.
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