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Up Topic Dog Boards / Health / Swelling in face
- By Nikita [gb] Date 13.04.17 12:38 GMT
In need of some extra brains on the case, here.

Faolan is having some face/mouth problems and we're at the point of referral.

End of Feb, I noticed his top gum was looking red and angry, gingivitis-like and his canine on that side was starting to go off-colour.  Within a week, the side of his muzzle alongside the bridge of his nose started to swell up very quickly.

Got him into the vet, who put him on antirobe for an assumed infection, and metacam for the inflammation.  No response at all, and his face continued to grow.  Another week went by, and he had a swelling starting in the roof of his mouth.  At this stage he went in for investigations: needle aspirates on his muzzle, biopsies on his now very red, angry, bumpy gum.

The diagnosis was chronic, severe gingivitis probably from trauma to the dying tooth, with fibrous nodules causing the hard swelling.  So he had the tooth taken out.  By this point, the swellings had joined through his mouth - gums swollen from the side with the affected tooth round to the front and back through to the swelling in the roof.

Now the swelling on his muzzle is still growing, his eye is weeping and hurting and nothing has improved at all (we're now 2-weeks post tooth removal).  The vet is out of ideas and is wondering if there's a growth hidden under the inflammation that the needles missed.  I'm working on the same theory but with infection, so at my request, he's starting a two week course of Noroclav (as we can't be more specific without a culture) and metacam, and a hefty dose of hope.  The muzzle swelling is rock hard (but no bone involvement according to the x-ray) and hot, so I'm hoping that that's what we're dealing with - just a really tough, closed infection.

But, I thought I'd post in case anyone had any experiences or suggestions.  I can't do a referral without help - he's not insured and I am flat broke right now - so I've got to look into options on that front but I'm hoping there might be something else my own vet can try.  Removal of the mass is not an option as it would require moving the entire upper half of his muzzle back to the eye sockets.
- By RozzieRetriever Date 13.04.17 13:58 GMT
Can't help with brains or suggestions, but really hoping you manage to sort it out for the poor lad, he must be so miserable. Sending positive thoughts for you both. xx
- By MamaBas Date 13.04.17 15:28 GMT
'K.   Very cautiously because this may NOT be what's going on but some years ago now, one of our hounds started to have difficulty opening his mouth, and some swelling.  He was treated with antibiotics, antiinflammatories and we came home.   This is the first time my much missed vet at the time was basically stumped.   Cutting a long story short, and believe me this went on for a long time and at one point he was so bad that I honestly felt it would be kindest to let him go,  head the size of a football, not wanting to open his mouth, on max. Prednisone (which sent him ga-ga and running into the bushes and we had to get him off that fast).   Eventually what it was pointed just under his ear on that side, it was lanced and what was there extracted ..... A GRASS SEED.    Clearly he'd managed to ingest it and it went into the back of his mouth and over time worked it's way out as said.   It was a nightmare and again the only time I've really seen that vet mystified.  

When it was discovered, we were all pretty much dancing round the examination room!.    But the good thing about all of that was by the time it was resolved, all his previous car travelling upchucking had ended.   He was cured!!!

For what it's worth?
- By Nikita [gb] Date 13.04.17 15:47 GMT
Thanks.  There are no signs of entry wounds or anything anywhere but I'll give him a good checkover anyway.

Rozzie - he is cheerful as ever!  Still running around, eating normally etc .  No change in his character at all, except when he's been recovering from the GAs.
- By Merlot [gb] Date 14.04.17 16:40 GMT
I too once had a dog with a grass seed in his face and huge swellings. No entry wound at all because we assume he got it in the back of his mouth and it just worked in, could something have wriggled in by the tooth but later moved ? The seed was finally found up under his ear too.
PS just to add it was removed in the November and was a bearded wheat seed so they can take a long time to cause big problems.
- By Justine [gb] Date 14.04.17 20:05 GMT
It sounds like some sort of auto immune problem.  Something like Systemic Lupus Erythematosus can cause problems/swellings in various places in the body, including the mouth.
- By Nikita [gb] Date 15.04.17 07:56 GMT
Auto-immune was ruled out but perhaps worth a revisit.  I'll look into that, thank you.
- By Agility tervs [gb] Date 15.04.17 12:17 GMT
My daughter's border collie's head swelled up a couple of years ago. It turned out that it was caused by some tick born disease or reaction. She made a full recovery. Unfortunately I can't remember any details and my daughter is away at the moment so I can't find out. It was very nasty at the time.
- By Merrypaws [gb] Date 15.04.17 13:55 GMT

> I too once had a dog with a grass seed in his face and huge swellings. No entry wound at all because we assume he got it in the back of his mouth and it just worked in, could something have wriggled in by the tooth but later moved ? The seed was finally found up under his ear too.

I've heard of something like this on another forum - a grass seed tracked up beside a molar into the eye-socket, resulting in loss of the eye.  Horrible horrible seeds.
- By Gundog Girl [gb] Date 17.04.17 13:50 GMT
Hi Nikita, So sorry to hear Faolan is suffering with this. When I read it it shouted out to me abcess!! I had a horse who presented in a very similar way, antibiotics didn't work we tried so many different ones until the vet said there is something in there and it just has to find it's way out and leave it to his own immune system to sort it. So we had to leave him, with the abcess (but with pain relief) until it burst and the pus and cause were ejected. Never found out what it was and my lovely boy had a huge hole in his cheek and feeding him took ages, but it healed and he lived for another 15 years before he died of natural causes. Also had a spaniel who had a similar abcess and even with antibiotics again it burst and her cheek was a mess for a couple of weeks. I bathed it in a solution of epsom salts and it healed up really well. Sometimes nature can find a way.  Hope your boy is OK soon.
- By Nikita [gb] Date 17.04.17 18:32 GMT
Unfortunately it's looking more and more likely that he's going to need an MRI, so I'm currently googling like crazy to try and create some options for myself to get it done.

His muzzle is another 5mm bigger in circumference since I measured it two days ago, and it's growing into his nostril now - it's clearly visible behind his right nare and the nare itself is being pushed wide.  He's still happy and cheerful but his eating has slowed right down, at least for his meals (I'm still risking fingers giving him treats though so his appetite hasn't been affected).

His eye has at least stopped weeping as badly now and doesn't appear to be sore, so that's something.  But the growth rate is just too high and should really have responded to the ABs by now.
- By Gabrielle Date 18.04.17 14:52 GMT
I have debated about writing this, but a pup out of my dog had very similar symptoms to what you have described. After an MRI was undertaken it was found that she had a really rare tumour (in my breed anyway) called a fibrosarcoma. It started in her gun and she had teeth removed and the vet noticed the tissue wasn't what he expected to be the 'right colour'. This spread into her cheek, nostril and eye socket very quickly and her owners decided not to operate.

I pray that this is nothing like what your boy has, but just thought I would mention it in case you wanted to mention it to your vet.

Fingers crossed for a positive outcome for you x
- By Nikita [gb] Date 18.04.17 18:37 GMT
I appreciate you writing about this pup Gabrielle, thank you.  I am a very practical person so I want to know about all possibilities, no matter how grim.

As it happens, I am aware of fibrosarcoma and it's exactly what I'm frightened about.  If it does turn out to be that, then I won't have him operated on either because of the extent of it - he'd have to have the top half of his snout removed.  There is a dog that's had that done, and I will not do it to Fay. 

Funnily enough, my vet said similar - for her it was the texture that rang alarm bells which prompted the punch biopsies he had.  His gums were very red and angry, but not in any way unusual for severe gingivitis, but the texture was/is nobbly and fibrous.  It's actually starting to smooth out again now as the growth continues and the outer layer stretches.

I do need to find out for sure though so he will still get his scan!
- By Gundog Girl [gb] Date 19.04.17 18:45 GMT
So sorry to hear your boy is still so ill and no diagnosis yet. Thinking of you xo.
- By Nikita [gb] Date 20.04.17 08:12 GMT
He's booked in for an MRI on Monday.  Much worrying here but at least I should get an answer at last.
- By Lacy Date 20.04.17 11:24 GMT
Fingers & paws crossed for you both.
- By RozzieRetriever Date 20.04.17 12:11 GMT
Hope you get a good result. Fingers crossed.
- By Gundog Girl [gb] Date 20.04.17 19:23 GMT
Hi Nikita, Glad to hear you have got an MRI arranged. Thinking of you with that long wait ahead and hoping for a curative outcome for your boy.
- By Gabrielle Date 21.04.17 22:48 GMT
Thinking of you and fingers crossed that you get some answers x
- By saxonjus Date 24.04.17 15:02 GMT
Sending positive vibes and prayers
- By Nikita [gb] Date 24.04.17 18:06 GMT
Fibrosarcoma :cry:  At least, that's the most likely.  It might be a mast cell tumour or a carcinoma, but position, presentation and the biopsies suggest fibro.  I am gutted :cry:
- By Lacy Date 24.04.17 18:19 GMT
I'm so very very sorry.
- By Blay [us] Date 24.04.17 18:31 GMT
Nikita - I am so very sorry that you have had such truly horrible news.  Poor boy - and poor you.  Thinking of you.
- By poodlenoodle Date 24.04.17 20:31 GMT
I'm so so sorry. :cry: thinking of you so much.
- By RozzieRetriever Date 24.04.17 21:16 GMT
Very sorry to hear this. Look after yourselves xxx
- By CaroleC [gb] Date 25.04.17 13:51 GMT
Sad news.
- By Cava14Una [gb] Date 25.04.17 17:26 GMT
So sorry to hear that
- By Gundog Girl [gb] Date 25.04.17 18:01 GMT
I was hoping for a simple abscess that was treatable, not this. How is he?
- By Nikita [gb] Date 26.04.17 08:01 GMT
He's absolutely fine, still his usual playful, energetic self.  I'm getting some stuff in place to try and slow this thing down so we get more time :smile:
- By Goldmali Date 26.04.17 21:16 GMT
So sorry it was bad news.
- By Gabrielle Date 28.04.17 09:37 GMT
Am so sorry to hear this... I did think the symptoms were so similar to Maya (my dog's daughter).
Thinking of you and your boy and sending (((big hugs))) xxx
- By Gundog Girl [gb] Date 28.04.17 13:04 GMT
Hope you can enjoy the time left with your playful pup. He won't know what's going on but you do, and that is so hard. Thinking of you both xo
- By Gundog Girl [gb] Date 07.05.17 13:11 GMT
Just wanted to ask how your boy is doing and if the treatment you have set up is helping him (and you).
- By Nikita [gb] Date 07.05.17 14:52 GMT
He's doing very well, thank you for asking.  The tumour has shrunk a fair bit - probably just removing inflammation with everything he's on, particularly the hefty dose of steroid, but it's bought him time and made him more comfortable.
- By gsdowner Date 07.05.17 18:59 GMT
sending you both hugs xxx
Up Topic Dog Boards / Health / Swelling in face

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