Champdogs Information Exchange
My boy is 4 years old and still intact. There have been quite a few incidents of others dogs just turning on him once they've sniffed over the past year or so. So much so that it is now affecting his behaviour towards others dogs, especially black labradors which seem to be the most frequent turncoats. He now totally ignores black labs and won't make any attempt to approach.
A week ago I was about to get my boy in the car and this lurcher came running up tail wagging almost puppy like but an adult. As soon as he got to my dog he turned and tried to get him by the throat. He hurt him as my boy squeeled which he's never done before. No cut skin but he was in shock and just laid on the back seat on the way home. This weekend there was a spaniel came forward all bouncy like the lurcher. My boy went straight on the attack, he's never attacked another dog before. No damage done other than the shock of it for everyone, but I don't want a repeat incident.
I'm wanting your opinions on whether you think neutering will stop other dogs behaving this way towards him. It's affecting him in a bad way I don't want him to start being fearful of every dog he sees.
Neutering can often make things worse as he will loose the confidence testosterone gives him.
Have you had his prostate checked, as there could be an increase in testosterone allied to prostate enlargement?
I would simply avoid any meetings with other male dogs longer than an initial sniff if at all.
> Neutering can often make things worse as he will loose the confidence testosterone gives him.<br />
Totally agree - and even more so as entire dogs can't work out what a neutered dog actually is (dog or bitch).
Strange how often black Labs fall foul of other dogs btw. Mine hated 'em. And that was equally strange as my line tended to be dark tricolours! With my current two, not home-bred, it's more likely to be Border Collies that they react badly to.
Its difficult over here as its a very "off lead" culture so difficult to keep him away from other dogs unless hes on a lead/longline, which I find then makes dogs in general more on edge. I have been keeping greetings to sniff, good boy, lets go but the other dogs have then turned back or just gone for him, there hasn't been a build up. He certainly doesn't lack confidence. In fact I have wondered if its his over confident body language posturing which sparks the other dogs off, as he will stand all puffed up if you know what I mean.
Mamabas its the black labs that are the one attacking him.
Brainless hes got annual check up coming up so I'll mention it
28.02.17 09:33 GMT
I don't know if neutering would help your boy or not, to be honest - I can say I've not had any issues with any of my boys being attacked so perhaps it would but there is that risk of testosterone removal making your own boy's behaviour worse, especially as he's now becoming defensive (which is entirely understandable).
I've also never had trouble with other dogs struggling to work out if my boys are boys are girls - they still know.
Perhaps you could try chemical castration to see if there's any improvement, before going down the irreversible route.
You may be onto something about his body language, though - and that is unlikely to change post-castration. For that I would work on encouraging diffusing body language (sniffing the ground, turning away, not standing head-on etc) and see if that helps.
Alternatively, it may have absolutely nothing to do with his neuter status and everything to do with other people's dogs being a-holes! I've seen a distinct rise in problem dogs over the last ten years. I used to be able to walk my dogs anywhere, socialise etc and rehabilitate my own reactive dogs at their pace with no problems whereas now, it's incredibly hard to do as the risk of a dog running over and being rude or reactive is so very high, combined with so many owners now who just don't care what their dogs do or have no control over them but still let them off lead. Yesterday, I walked a weimeraner as I often do and from over 100ft away, we were stalked to by an obese dog with a prong collar on while his owner strolled up behind - as soon as he grabbed the dog, the dog tried to attack. I suspect things like that may be more the issue than your boy.
Yes I have been looking into chemical castration, it's expensive though at £100 for one 6 mths treatment. Also the first 2-3weeks can be higher levels of testosterone which gives me concern about other dogs and how he might be towards other dogs. It would have to be very controlled walks.
Other dogs behaviours definately a problem. As usual though it's always the owners who insist "they're only playing" even when their dog is 4 times the size of yours and then they do nothing to call the dog off.
I think maybe we'll try more training on him focusing on me while out. As you suggest to try change his body language when other dogs are approaching. At least I should be able to prevent a repeat occurrence of him going for another dog which is my main concern of that becoming a behaviour.
01.03.17 07:53 GMT
I'd try to give him a few weeks away from other dogs at the start, so you can get some practice in and just to give him a break from them.
It is so frustrating when you have a well behaved dog and others muck it up. My younger collie was fine with dogs until her second fear period, then I was maybe a few encounters away from getting her sorted out when a mastiff cross scared her. Finally get her close to being okay again and we got yellow labs charging at us to play while she was on lead! Thankfully that effect didn't last too long but she easily goes reactive to dogs because of those past incidents.
Someone else I know near enough avoids all dogs now because they've gotten fed up with their sociable dogs becoming lead reactive from similar experiences.
I've had two of our hounds chemically castrated and in neither case did that cost anything near £100. And I saw no behavioural changes in either - one was treated this way because of prostate flare-up and I really didn't want to go for a full castration, at the time. The other had, for reason not immediately know, started bothering his spayed companion and I felt had been 'turned on' perhaps by some bitch in season locally. Bearing in mind both were Bassets. Other breeds may react differently.
I'm thinking getting the "watch me" command bomb proofed. Then desensitizing to other dogs from a distance and gradually working closer to other dogs while keeping him watching me. It's not going to be easy he is very dog orientated which is the sad part for him. Guess I'm just going to have to start being more exciting
Mamabas everything is expensive here, 2 different vets same price
I got quoted £275 for castration don't know how that compares to other vets.
01.03.17 18:42 GMT
Have a google for the 'engage-disengage' game, I've mentioned it a couple of times for recall but it is typically used for reactive dogs. I find it extremely useful for simultaneously giving your dog good experiences in connection with other dogs and teaching them a more appropriate behaviour (looking away). Just having him watch you constantly isn't ideal as he'll need to be able to see other dogs or you run the risk of him becoming more
sensitive/reactive, because he can't observe them properly and learn how to behave more appropriately during interactions. It's certainly useful, and may be very handy for diffusing potential encounters as a sitting dog watching its owner is far less interesting, but it shouldn't be the only tool in your toolkit.
01.03.17 19:26 GMT
I was thinking of using "watch me" in a similar way as the game. When he sees another dog to ask him to watch me to get his attention to me, but not to maintain constant eye contact, just to break the body signals he may be giving the other dog.
I wasn't going to ask him to watch me as soon I see another dog to try to prevent him seeing them. I agree he needs to see them. I want the end result for him to see dogs but be relaxed and to be able to diffuse the posturing which may be part of the trigger. Does that make sense?
I've had two of our hounds chemically castrated and in neither case did that cost anything near £100. And I saw no behavioural changes in either - one was treated this way because of prostate flare-up and I really didn't want to go for a full castration, at the time.
Was that with Suprelorin though, and not the old fashioned Tardak ? Suprelorin has only been around a few years and tends to be much more effective.
I was thinkin that about the watch command.we are working in this atm woth my fcr and did wonder of there was something else I should do .off to google
01.03.17 21:51 GMT
> I was thinkin that about the watch command.we are working in this atm woth my fcr and did wonder of there was something else I should do .off to google
I've done the same in the past, made/asked them to sit & look at me but this has often meant that they are just bulldozed from behind without warning.
> Was that with Suprelorin though, and not the old fashioned Tardak ?
I know the first one (prostate problems) was with Tardak. I'd have to check the second although I think that was also with Tardak. Both times it achieved what was hoped.
it happened the other day . she was sat and practicing watch when a smallish dog shot out of nowhere and stuck its nose on her bum. result she shot round lunged an barked. exactly what we didn't need
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