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Up Topic Dog Boards / Bring and Buy / Wanted Show Stacking Blocks
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- By peppe [gb] Date 22.10.16 19:11 GMT
Can anyone let me know where you can get Show Stacking Blocks.
- By chaumsong Date 23.10.16 04:09 GMT Upvotes 2
Hub sell them , but I reckon you could make them for a fraction of the cost.

I wouldn't use them at all though, see the young pups here learning to use them, I think they'd put my sensitive hounds off.
- By MamaBas Date 23.10.16 07:40 GMT
Heavens, I've never seen that before - and certainly would never have bothered with them for my puppies.   It seems a lot of money to pay when a basic grooming table has been something I've been successful enough in using with all my young hounds, if they needed to be up off the ground at all.
- By Lexy [gb] Date 23.10.16 08:32 GMT Upvotes 1
I was NOT going to make comment on this thread at all but am going to reply to you MamaBas.

> a basic grooming table >


I think you better google stackers to see exactly what they are!!!
- By Brainless [gb] Date 23.10.16 08:47 GMT Upvotes 7
Horrible idea, a dog should be judged on it's natural conformation and therefore taught to stand in it's own natural balance.
- By biffsmum [gb] Date 23.10.16 10:22 GMT Upvotes 5
I show a table dog. I know that some exhibitors use these but I think they're horrible. I'd rather not show than train a pup with this contraption...
- By Goldmali Date 23.10.16 11:10 GMT Upvotes 6
I think they're nothing but cruel (possibly unless used for training obedience in a confident dog already used to do similar things) -not to teach poor pups that if they don't act like a statue they will fall........
- By MamaBas Date 23.10.16 12:19 GMT Upvotes 3

> I think you better google stackers to see exactly what they are!!!


I did and was quite frankly HORRIFIED.    That goes along with using a breeding rack as far as I'm concerned.   Whatever next.
- By Lily Mc [gb] Date 23.10.16 12:41 GMT Upvotes 2
Those videos aren't pleasant watching, are they?
- By Daeze [gb] Date 23.10.16 13:43 GMT Upvotes 3
I think most dogs stacked on them look awful as the dogs look so tense :(
- By chaumsong Date 24.10.16 14:01 GMT Upvotes 1

> Those videos aren't pleasant watching, are they?


No :sad: I like to see puppies enjoying learning something new, these weren't
- By poodlenoodle Date 24.10.16 22:32 GMT
Well my flabber is gasted. Posts like this reminds me how much of a "dog person" I'm not. I had no idea this even existed and foolishly thought show dogs stacked naturally (my poodle does, I've never taught him, he's just a flashy so and so and his natural stance and movement is showy like an Arabian horse).

Why do they force all the dogs to stand so uncomfortably with their jocks straight and back ends unsupported but allow the GSD to have a leg under to support its weight?
- By Goldmali Date 24.10.16 23:35 GMT Upvotes 1
Posts like this reminds me how much of a "dog person" I'm not.

That makes us all except the original poster the same then..... I show two breeds, both are free stood as nature intended.

Why do they force all the dogs to stand so uncomfortably with their jocks straight and back ends unsupported but allow the GSD to have a leg under to support its weight?

That's more US style -and GSDs are no longer allowed to be stood that way in the UK. They have to stand with one leg in each corner as all other breeds.
- By Lily Mc [gb] Date 25.10.16 07:33 GMT Upvotes 1

>foolishly thought show dogs stacked naturally


I would think (hope!) the majority do.

Certainly in my breed, we have only had the very occasional professional handler in the rings, and particularly with one I looked at the dog and it seemed obvious to me that he had been trained this way - stood stock still, with no animation, never shifting a paw. The poor dog looked miserable as sin, and I thought a lot less of the owner who paid a very famous handler to train her dog that way. He got his Champion title, of course, but personally I can't see where the satisfaction comes from in doing it that way. (And no, that's not sour grapes at all, made my own bitch up and then some during a similar period, and had the satisfaction of doing it myself with a happy dog.)
- By rachelsetters Date 25.10.16 08:25 GMT Upvotes 2
I would NEVER EVER use such a thing on my dogs - I suspect and would hope these are used in the minority - although I think abroad they are used extensively sadly :(

Showing should be fun and something enjoyable to do together not forcing dogs to do things and in such a way it takes any fun away and also becomes painful and uncomfortable.
- By rachelsetters Date 25.10.16 08:27 GMT

> and GSDs are no longer allowed to be stood that way in the UK. They have to stand with one leg in each corner as all other breeds.


interesting at ringcraft and the open shows I have been to people are still stacking the 'old' way? and I mean positioning feet etc. I knew there was a directive from the KC but thought I had misunderstood!
- By Lily Mc [gb] Date 25.10.16 08:45 GMT Upvotes 3
It's interesting (well, depressing actually) to see how my very naturally shown breed is moving more towards a stacked breed abroad, with an increase in professional handlers - even without the use of tools such as this, they are moving towards stacking and holding the dogs behind the ears on a tight collar, which gives such a different look to standing back on a loose lead and letting the dog engage with the handler and show its natural outline.

It is starting to creep in here, and I truly hope we can stop it. Too much focus on groups instead of the breed ring, I fear, and all dogs start to look the same.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 25.10.16 08:53 GMT Upvotes 1
It's like that on USA and Australia with our breed, seems to go hand in hand with small entries judged by all rounder judges doing whole groups. In UK it has always been strongly stated that the breed is shown freestanding. For how much longer I don't know, probably only until a successful dog is stacked.

Our standard says Bold and Energetic, how can you determine any of that when stacked.
- By suejaw Date 25.10.16 13:46 GMT
You've not misunderstood they should be stood 4 square like other breeds are. the judge should be dealing with this and if they aren't then a complaint to the kc should be put forward imo.
- By rachelsetters Date 25.10.16 14:46 GMT
by who Sue - me?  I dont' think I want to pay £35 to complain tbh
- By tooolz Date 25.10.16 15:28 GMT Upvotes 4

>Why do they force all the dogs to stand so uncomfortably


Well you see...this is how we "all" get tarred with the same brush.
"They" become all of us....when it couldn't be further from the truth.
I know loads of "Dog persons" and have NEVER known anyone who uses these...ever. In my breed the dog needs to be animated, wagging and spirited.
But I've only been showing dogs for 40 years.:lol:

Poor Peppe..bet you wish you'd never asked.
- By jogold [gb] Date 25.10.16 16:02 GMT Upvotes 4
As far as I'm concerned if it's built right it will stand right without needing anything like THAT.
- By suejaw Date 25.10.16 16:15 GMT
no not you to pay but to flag it with the committee. I would b3 inclined again not saying you to film it and pass to the kc also.
- By poodlenoodle Date 26.10.16 09:02 GMT
That was in specific reference to the videos and pictures linked, as I'm sure you understood.
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 26.10.16 22:58 GMT
Absolutely - such practices are fodder to the mill of byb's and PDEs.  Sadly, these sort of things aren't exclusive to show dogs. I've read of barbaric 'methods' being seen to be used on agility and obedience dogs at Discover Dogs this year!
- By Harley Date 27.10.16 13:33 GMT Upvotes 1

> I've read of barbaric 'methods' being seen to be used on agility and obedience dogs at Discover Dogs this year!


Can you please enlarge on this? Being involved in the agility world I would be very interested to know more and would be horrified to hear of any barbaric methods being used  - not only on agility dogs but any dog at all. A competitor at a KC agility show can be , and have been, asked to leave the ring if any harsh handling occurs and the incident would be recorded and sent to the KC for them to consider further action. Handlers in the past have been banned from competing at KC shows due to harsh handling.
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 27.10.16 22:40 GMT
I can't give names, or any other details, but one particular recent situation did involve the 'security?' as their actions were challenged and was seen on the cctv - on the approach but not in the ring.

I've also witnessed dogs who 'perform' in obedience being the least well behaved outside the ring - dragged and yanked about and hit ....  This wasn't just restricted to shows but 'training' classes too.  It has been quite a while since I saw either, personally, but still.... It reallly puts me off.

I'm very glad to hear about the banning for harsh handling
- By Brainless [gb] Date 27.10.16 22:53 GMT Upvotes 1

> I've also witnessed dogs who 'perform' in obedience being the least well behaved outside the ring


There is a saying among some Obedience folk "Obedience dogs, not Obedient dogs".
It is said that dogs don't generalise, and I suppose when some dogs are trained to such concentration and accuracy, they are allowed or need the release of not being 'on' all the time.

No excuse for badly behaved dogs that lunge out and generally make a hyped nuisance of themselves.

I have to say I have not been to an Obedience higher than Open level, as a spectator.
- By Harley Date 28.10.16 07:58 GMT

> I can't give names, or any other details, but one particular recent situation did involve the 'security?' as their actions were challenged and was seen on the cctv - on the approach but not in the ring.


I wasn't expecting names to be given but would like to know what were the barbaric methods used with agility dogs? Was this at Discover Dogs? Or was your comment a general statement? I have friends who competed at DD and not heard anything at all about agility dogs being mistreated there - and competitors and ring party usually do a great job at self policing.
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 28.10.16 15:15 GMT
Hayley, it is a general comment but the incident at DD was on the approach - the dog being practically strung up for pulling.
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 28.10.16 22:13 GMT
I understand the difference between obedience training/performing and being a generally well-behaved dog, and understand that they need to release tension , and that at higher levels there will be some doing a 'McEnroe' and throwing their 'racquet' - it's how they're handled that is my concern. 

I also wonder how much a dog actually enjoys the competition if it is in such a hyper-aroused state just on the approach?
- By corgilover [gb] Date 30.10.16 19:16 GMT Upvotes 4
The kennel club has already condemned the use of them
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 31.10.16 08:33 GMT Upvotes 2
Article about stacking blocks
- By MamaBas Date 31.10.16 09:06 GMT Edited 31.10.16 09:11 GMT Upvotes 1
Once again we have something else coming across the Pond to be used over here by people who don't know better.   I know that some prof.handlers over there have used grooming tables to 'train' a young hound to stand still, by putting the back feet right at the very edge of the table, much as I'm not sure how this can help as the hound would be inclined to replace his back feet forward, not back and risk falling off.

Again for me using methods like this are barbaric, and unnecessary.   Although in our breed, we do 'top and tail' in the stack, I'd not want any dog of mine acting in the ring anything other than naturally, and happily (with emphasis on the happily).   Small wonder the Great British Public latch onto the evils of showing, which they will once they get hold of this one.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 31.10.16 17:03 GMT

> Small wonder the Great British Public latch onto the evils of showing, which they will once they get hold of this one.


Even though most people condemn them, as does the KC, the damage in perception is done.
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 31.10.16 21:06 GMT Edited 31.10.16 21:10 GMT

>


It is truly awful. I have so many difficulties about competing with animals as the prize, to myself as  one  of Joe Public, often seems to override the welfare of the animal (dog, horse or whatever) - I've commented as such on a recent post about activity dogs and have read that some show people use calming tablets ! This last is the worst, for me, as temperament is so important when breeding and is the no 1 reason for dogs being pts early (obviously health also matters an awful lot).
The use of these stacks is yet another 'short cut to trying to gain accolades without considering the dog in front of 'you'
This is a crying shame as I believe, after being on here and other groups, that so many of you care so much.
- By MamaBas Date 01.11.16 08:01 GMT Upvotes 1
Just to add to this topic.   When I was judging, although with our breed we stack (top and tail), I always wanted to see the hound 'free standing' at one point when examining it and usually asked for that at the end of the 'up and back'.   And I'd also always glance back down the line during judging - it's 'interesting' what you pick up when the dogs are 'relaxed'  :grin:     And when showing, I was always aware that at any point the hound could stand ugly, so made sure my entry wasn't totally relaxed, even when told to as the judge then went over the individuals!!   Mind you most problems should have been seen on moving!

As for using calming tablets well using Skullcap and Valerian was a well known aid (maybe still is - it's been a while since I was showing) with a dog that really wasn't totally happy being shown.   Much as if I had one who, frustratingly, never gave of it's best in the ring, I tended to retire them.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 01.11.16 09:35 GMT

> Much as if I had one who, frustratingly, never gave of it's best in the ring, I tended to retire them.


Just come to that conclusion with my five year old bitch.  All my others have all loved to show.

Always been hard work to show tending to drop her very tightly curled high set tail, getting bored if asked to stand fr more than two seconds.

Absolutely loves going to the shows, lapping up the fuss and attention, socialising with the other dogs, but as soon as in the ring, just so much work to get any performance out of her.

Took her to our club Open show held with Midland Counties on Sunday, after an absence from the ring since last year (as had pups in April), flat as a pancake as soon as asked to stand.

Won't show her again.
- By rachelsetters Date 01.11.16 09:50 GMT
We were talking to a trade stand chap apparently everyone is using some of the drugs to perk dogs up in the ring - not relax them ! 

I can't imagine having to have to drug a dog to show - quite sad really isn't it.

Boo can have his off days but at the end of the day he's a dog and not a robot - no way would I want to be drugging him to ensure he performs every time :(

So good on you doing what's best for your dog - it may be disappointing but if they don't like it - they are our much loved pets after all aren't they.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 01.11.16 09:57 GMT
I'll just bring her for the ride to club shows, as she really does enjoy meeting all her friends human and canine.  Maybe just enter her in Brace with one of the others for fun.
- By rachelsetters Date 01.11.16 10:11 GMT Upvotes 1
She'll love her day out I'm sure :) and brace and TEAM remember - is always a fun class for all :)

I've semi retired Connor now - he still loves it but I daren't leave him at home yet - how he would he would sulk - so he'll come to shows and do the odd club and open vet stakes - he was a complete clown on Sunday so he still enjoys it but once he stops enjoying it then he can just be the support team :) I've seen so many dogs who are dragged and fed up be continue to be shown.

It is so important to take care of our pets xxx
- By MamaBas Date 01.11.16 15:55 GMT Upvotes 1

> they are our much loved pets after all aren't they.


Yep.   This comes under the same heading as 'always bringing the best dog home with us!!'.    I had one who hated being gone over but as soon as we were off round the ring, up came the tail.  Sooo frustrating.   And another (is there a pattern here :razz:) who I did manage to put a RCC on, but in the end it was such a battle that she too was retired.  With the cost of showing (and even more these days) it's simply not worth wasting money, or more importantly, upsetting a stay at home sort.   And no, I wasn't using Skullcap and Valerian. - which actually isn't a 'drug' - Dorwest sells herbals meds.
http://www.dorwest.com/products/SV/scullcap-and-valerian-tablets-for-dogs-and-cats
- By suejaw Date 01.11.16 19:49 GMT Upvotes 1
perk them up? I know a few people who give their dogs stuff to relax them and I mean beyond rescue remedy.
As you know I've retired one of my girls as while she will stand and loves that part she goes sluggish on the move and that was with over a year out of the ring so not putting  her through it as she isn't enjoying herself.
Wouldn't even consider giving any of mine anything to perk them up, they either enjoy it or they don't and that's beyond the odd off day..
me right now I'm having off months from it all lol
- By tooolz Date 01.11.16 21:16 GMT Upvotes 1
As they say "sort it in the whelping box..not the tack box" ( read drug cabinet!)
- By rachelsetters Date 02.11.16 10:41 GMT

> perk them up?


yes - give a bored/flat dog some vavavoom!

Oh I too heard many of the stressed dogs are given more than herbal remedies to help them - such a shame - poor dogs IMO - it really isn't worth it is it.
- By suejaw Date 02.11.16 16:18 GMT
it's awful. I've heard of people not walking their dogs the day before and keeping them caged up so when they get to the ring the next day they are fired up and wanting to go for it in the ring.. So your vavavoom without putting anything in them.. Don't condone that either. Sad way when dogs become solely about winning at all costs.
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 02.11.16 20:47 GMT Upvotes 1
As I thought, you lovely people care more about your dogs than a CC, or other award.  Ok I know only a few have commented but it's not a scientific study :)

What worries me so much about the use of drugs (apart from the distress of the dog/s of course) is how can a breed, and breeding, be judged on temperament if they are chemically affected? 

Herbal medications, though many may be less strong and have fewer side-effects than vet prescribed drugs, are still medications/drugs. The Cambridge dictionary definition of 'drug' is; "any natural or artificially made chemical that is used as a medicine".  As I am now, through lots of research and learning, a proponent of feeding, rearing and treating as naturally as possible, I prefer herbal treatments but I'm still aware that they are drugs.  Cannabis is a herbal medicine and can have beneficial effects in the treatment of several conditions - it is still a drug though.
- By poodlenoodle Date 02.11.16 21:18 GMT
This makes me think it a real shame my boy's colouring means he can't be shown (or rather won't ever win anything) as he is MADE of vavavoom. He is perpetually up on his toes, ears pricked, neck arched, prancing like a circus horse because he saw a bird/dog/tree/car/leaf. Every walk is like a winners parade :grin::lol:
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 02.11.16 22:15 GMT
I love parti-poodles & agree it's a shame they can't be shown.  I don't know what effect it would have on their health though - bybs out for money with 'rare' colours vs dedicated breeders of parti's not caring about money/prizes just doing it for love.... Both seemingly currently occur
- By Goldmali Date 02.11.16 23:11 GMT Upvotes 1
(Just tagging on to end.) Going back to the original subject, I notice that in the Crufts 2017 schedule it is mentioned that stacking blocks are not allowed.
Up Topic Dog Boards / Bring and Buy / Wanted Show Stacking Blocks
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