Champdogs Information Exchange
Has anyone any experience of getting an elderly relative (who is unsafe at home alone and refuses help from any agencies ) into some form of home/sheltered accommodation when they don't want to go ?
30.04.16 17:04 GMT
A difficult one. I'm old and have a list of serious health problems. I am adamant that nobody will move me from the home I worked so hard to buy. As I said, a difficult one.
30.04.16 17:19 GMT
If they have mental capacity there is nothing you can do.
Unless it's got to the point where they need to be put under some sort of section, and that's not a route to be taken lightly, then no not much you can do but gentle persuasion.
30.04.16 17:24 GMT
Just to add its possible you could be accused of abuse if you apply too much pressure even if you think its the best thing.
A very difficult situation, almost all older people have a healthy fear of "old people's homes" and having seen some of them I am not surprised, we had to search long and hard for one for my mum, then we introduced the idea of just staying for a short time, a rest, and when she got used to going for a few days a couple of times over several months we asked her to stay and she agreed. In the end she was very happy and well cared for in the home but unless you can persuade your relative or she falls or is taken to hospital then released into "care" then she cannot be forced. Good luck at a very fraught time for you.
Its really hard as i am going throw same thing my gran can not cope with my papa i did get brouchers and phone numbers but she wont get help all you can do is support the person and let them ask for help in their own times
Ment to add do you have local carers group? The are very helpful and their to help you throw things etc they are so nice give them call speak to them
01.05.16 05:31 GMT
Had this with my father, father in law and recently with husbands aunt and uncle. In all cases it was a crisis of one sort or another that took them into hospital and then into the care system for a period of respite care. In all cases they appreciated pretty quickly that they liked being looked after and waited on hand foot and finger and decided to stay.
SIL is currently caring for her parents along with daily carers to deal with her mothers personal care as she is very incapacitated due to a stroke some eight years ago. She is coping ok with them at the moment but they have very fractious moments when they get upset at their failing health and blame my poor SIL for everything that goes wrong during the day. She keeps threatening them that she will stop coming to help if they don't behave (more to stop them driving her up the wall with their various moans), and that they will then have to go into care.
The very elderly can be quite difficult at times and very trying towards their loved ones. There is a general fear of going into a care home, more the thought of it rather then much first hand experience.
My father spent the last two years of his life in a home and although liked being looked after, rarely came out of his room to mix with the at her residents. FIL is the same, which is a pity as the home is really nice with all sorts of things going on to keep the residents happy and interested.
The aunty is very ill and not expected to see many more days, she has only been in the home for two months.
In a way it seems a pity that the care homes they have all gone in to put a lot of emphasis on having activities designed to keep the residents active and interested, yet all our elderlies haven't been able to enjoy them at all as they were so old and incapacitated by the time they went in to care that they were either unable or didn't want to be bothered.
All of them are/were in their late 80's/early 90's and in the case of FIL, is 96. Nothing would have made them go into care voluntarily and it was only a severe downturn in health that more or less drove them into the care system and it was left to us to find them nice, comfortable and kindly places for them to spend their last few years.
All you can do is try to persuade them, perhaps a visit to a home to show its not too bad really. Or maybe their doctor may be able to talk to them about it. Care in the home, although expensive, can allow people to stay in their home for longer and might well be acceptable.
01.05.16 07:00 GMT
It's very difficult. My mom in law has just had to give up driving at 83 (we tried for ages to tell her) due to the visor in her one remaining eye being drastically reduced due to wet macula. It's really knocked her confidence and she is finding life hard re buses and not understanding timetables or the bus numbers. She can't see really at all just blurs. We try and help suggest tips but she remains stubborn no ill do it. 10 mins change tv channel over. She is also very deaf and you get hoarse from shouting. Due to my operation and recovery I'm not walking down three times a week to see her and cook a meal.
I went yesterday on the bus walked to corner shop with her and did lunch soup and ham rolls..I still cannot lift anything but after 4 hours and oh stranded in hail on bike I walked the 1 & 1/4 mile uphill home. I got soaked in hail but the guilt for a) leaving because I'd got a headache from shouting and the very loud tv, b) guilt because I couldn't do more like I used too. Another injection in eye on Tuesday for her but I fear it's a pointless task. She hid her failing eyesight rather than admit to clinic until it became quite poor. We suggested,cajoled and my hubby her son even got angry with her for not calling the clinic.
its very tricky as if her sight goes what do we do? She is a stubborn,proud woman who I know would fight tooth and nail re a home. I feel we may have to move in with her but is it bad to feel I don't wish to be a carer so youngish still,
My parents live hour away,dad has vascular dementia mom is dad's carer. She has her own ill health and needs a knee replacement in 8 weeks I hope. I ring daily as I do not drive we see once a week. Who do I make priority? My parents or in laws? It's a huge emotional pull.....
Have you thought about getting care assesment done you contact your local social work they come to house with ot ie ocypinal theripist see what person needs care wish also banisters bath rises .toilit rise etc etc also the eledery person can get alarm it goes round neck or wrist if person falls they press alarm and help comes to get then up
i am trying to get my gran to phone and get assesment done on my papa she can not cope with him anymore she badly needs help but she does not anyone coming in house.my so called father ie sperm doner and my uncle too busy to help i wont help due to my papa spreading disgusting rumors about me and saying am faking my ill health he is dasty piece of work at times
grans really ill with nervers and depresion due to him she can not cope with him any more
every fortnight we go for lunch and her friend takes her out twice week to get her away from him
he had very mild stroke few years back theirs nothing wrong with him all he wants to do is sit in chair he lost all muscel in his legs as he wont move from chair his personal hygin disgusting he wont shower also wips his bum on duvet cover and chairs
if my grans out for day he wont eat he has type 2 diebites takes tablets he not intrested in anything gran having hell of time with him she in tears most of time with his behavor i fell so guility.i can not help her but i live 18 milis away i am only one that takes gran out and phone once day sperm doner lives 2min from her does sod all my uncle same
sorry for rant
01.05.16 11:59 GMT
If you haven't already done so, check out Age UK
. Lots of information and help available not just for the elderly but also for their loved ones.
01.05.16 13:35 GMT
> The very elderly can be quite difficult at times
Yup! Sounds like me.
01.05.16 14:30 GMT
Funny isn't it how our perspectives change! When it became necessary for my elderly mum to go int a care home, I thought what great care she received! At 71 it doesn't seem such an attractive option!
01.05.16 15:02 GMT
I will be 65 in a few days time and it wasn't so long ago that someone in their 60's was considered elderly.
I tend to think now that people in their late 80's and early 90's as elderly and having seen how all our elderly parents have been at that age have decided I'm not going to hang on that long!
He is early 90's and continues to drive despite having cateracts he won't have treated.
He is selfish and demanding.
He refuses outside help.
From reading your posts it looks like we will have to wait for something medical to occur, and hope the hospital says he has to go into a home.
Many thanks for your replies, it has been very helpful.
I know I can always rely on good advice on here, be it dog related or not.
01.05.16 15:54 GMT
Very sad when they get like this St.Domingo. My FIL is exactly the same. Part of it is due to the illness he has, but he has always been a difficult old so and so even when I first knew him 46 years ago.
He also flatly refused to have help in the house and only grumpily allowed a cleaner to come for an hour a week. The consequence of that was she was fighting a loosing battle against the mess each week unless we had been in to have a clean up.
My husband has always had a love hate relationship with him and often came home angry and cross over his fathers behaviour.
I hope you are able to solve this in the not too distant future, I know how hard it can be. My mum, bless her, did it right way for her. She went to bed one night and didn't wake up in the morning, just how she wanted it as she had a mortal dread of hospitals and care homes.
It is such a difficult situation to deal with. I know how hard it is.
My mum had dementia and had lived with my family all my married life. When the time came that I could no longer manage her at home, the guilt I felt is indescribable. My husband's mum at 93 was sound of mind but losing her sight etc. We had just managed to convince her she would be better off in a nice care home and she passed away.
There are no easy answers, and my heart goes out to you and your family St Domingo.
01.05.16 16:19 GMT
Definition of old is - someone who is 15-20 years older than you
02.05.16 09:21 GMT
If they have the mental capacity to make the decision to stay at home then even if it is an unsafe decision there is nothing anyone can do about it. I sadly see it all the time. This would still apply if they went to hospital and wanted to be discharged home; they cannot be forced to go elsewhere. I'm sure it's not the case for your relative but the way some people live really shocks me. I have to respect its their choice to live like that though.
Sheltered housing may not be much of a better option as many no longer have wardens now.
Apartments on a complex could be a good idea but they usually have long waiting lists.
A period in respite in an appropriate care home COULD help to persuade them to change their mind but it's whether you could get them to go in the first place. I know people adamant to stay at home have changed their minds; often they didn't realise how lonely and isolated there were at home.
I would rather say people in their young twighlight years than use elderaly word i thinks thats horrible word to class someone mibby its becuse i was brought up by my gran wade people always thinks she is my mother even thro she very young 83yr in her twilght years she never at home always out on bus tours etc its proply to escape my papa thats why she never in
as i say their no such word as old or eledray its young twilight years
02.05.16 10:54 GMT
02.05.16 10:59 GMT
People have the right to remain in their own home regardless of how or the Conditions they may choose to live under.in a very few cases u may get a court order but quite rare unless the person can be sectioned then decisions can be taken from them. I have worked in this sector and have seen people choosing to live in the most awful conditions rather than moving to any kind of care. In fact one I remember agreed to respite and deteriorated further untìl she was returned to her home. She was totally bedbound so u can image iwhat that meant and she relied on two visits a day to give her basic personal care and meals on wheels she was definitely still of sound mind but it was her choice. Had many a discussion woth her about her life previously and now but she wasn't going anywhere
Agree totally with merlot
02.05.16 18:45 GMT
02.05.16 18:52 GMT
Awww. Thank you Jean
02.05.16 22:50 GMT
If he's unsafe to drive and could be putting him and others at risk you can contact the dvla to advise and they will make him get an eye test and if he refuses his licence will be revoked. Might be an option to consider his and others on the road
My stepbrother informed the doctor that he felt that his father was not safe to be driving any longer. The doctor arranged an appointment for a check up, and broke the news that my stepfather would have to give up his licence. At the time it felt a bit deceitful, but I think it was the right thing to do.
03.05.16 09:48 GMT
03.05.16 09:50 GMT
My mum in law decided to stop driving for a bit! After she felt her one remaining eye sight had badly dropped at 83. She still has her license and not once has an eye Dr asked if she still drives! They assume as a family member with them she doesn't drive. They should ask each time. I dread my mom in law as car still on drive deciding had enough of buses, ill drive! I have felt the last 18 months she shouldn't drive but as I'm the only one who goes in the car with her it fell on deaf ears.She has another eye injection today but not sure if it will make eye better. She cannot read the papers now even with magnifying glass. Do we take car keys away? I feel I'm the only one who brings the subject up. Her son (my oh) & her daughter who lives miles away 2 & 1/2 hr car journey just ignore it. If I rang dvla what would be the family's reactions?
What would you do?
I think you need to have a family discussion and if they agree she shouldn't be able to use her car I would then have a chat with her . You may need to give alternatives to her eg a local taxi or round here there is service that's free to take people to the local supermarket.
If none of that works I would have a word with her doctor so next time they meet he can chat with her about the driving as well. The only other route is to either take her keys or disable the car so she cant use it .neither of which I favour. Its a really tricky one that I have been through as well
I can understand where you are coming from but the bottom line really should be:
Could you live with yourself if she had an accident and injured herself or a member of the public or worse there was a death as a direct result of her being allowed to continue to drive?
Sometimes it's hard to be the bad guy and the voice or reason - especially when family is concerned but the consequences of not saying anything don't really bare thinking about :( As a diabetic I had to inform the DVLA when I was diagnosed and then again when I had to start taking insulin. I have to sugar test before I get behind the wheel - every time - no exceptions. If I had a low and caused an accident, I could be taken to court and lose my licence. It would also void my policy according to the diabetic specialist on my last visit. Laws are continually changing and I wasn't made aware of this by my GP even though I had been put under their care and discharged by the hospital. I have since been re-referred and made aware of the changes.
You have to do what is right - especially as other people are put at risk if you don't.
My grt uncle 91yr and still driving he has to go throw test every year to see if he fit to drive
my late aunt had to give up her lincise she had diabites her eye sight was falling so she give up driving she had to under go few eye ops and died of kindey faler due to hosp mucking her around with appitments and not giving her kidney dylasas when needed
I have tried family discussion it just seems to go on back burner. So far she hasn't driven for 4 weeks. We take her shopping once a week and her friends so far taking her out to keep fit etc. Ironically she always used to take friends everywhere and she is a good 9 years older than the buddy gang.
I think she knows she won't drive again but it's the parting with the car seems to be the hardest. I went this afternoon a slow walk to visit her and came back on bus.
I feel as an in law it should be her daughter/son to discuss car with her as I'm a non driver too.
I feel thou if the eye clinic actually asked or took notice of people's age etc they should ask "driving?" As a standard question each visit.
An equally or even more difficult topic is when the elderly person is not taking care of their pets and refuses to accept help, a situation I found myself in fairly recently, matted dogs, cat with eye problems and cage birds in fithy conditions, very tricky indeed
03.05.16 16:56 GMT
03.05.16 16:59 GMT
If you are going to hospital appointments with her, could you ask if it's OK for her to still drive ?
Or could you ring the clinic/optician confidentially and inform them that she's still driving ?
There is always the DVLA, and her insurance company ?
I know it seems mean to go behind someone's back as you are taking away their independence, but other people are more important. We have seen, too often, people getting killed/injured by someone who shouldn't be driving.
I think opticians should have an obligation to inform the DVLA, perhaps they already do.
And I'd like to see some form of driving assessment over a certain age.
My relative lives in the middle of nowhere. Time and time again, as they got older, we suggested they move somewhere closer to amenities, but no.
Their is patient transport they come and pick person up take them to hospital app then back again
their is number on hospital letters you phone
yes their is test for old people its every year my grt uncle has one every year he still driving at 91yr
My relative is 90 and doesn't have any driving test.
Thanks for the link. Ironically before the latest flare up of wet macula mil had had her eyes checked and they passed her re dvla guidelines.
I mentioned it once in Dr appointments casually re driving 6 months ago and the then consultant advised at the moments it's ok but we will tell you when it's not. Nothing written or typed down i mentioned. Plus i was sort of told off by hubby for mentioning it.,Since then three urgent appointments re noticed sight deteriorated (not with me in tow, hubby) & 3 injections no mention of driving etc.
I do feel we all should have re tests re driving after 55 say every 5 years until 70 then every 2 years.
I have experienced this situation twice and both times although doctors advised not to drive they also said they do not contact dvla. It's upto the individual to take or ignore the advice. As for 55 personnaly I think that's pushing it to say some one of that age is likely to be incompetent in some way especially when u consider that the state pension age has been raised and the types of jobs people do and are considered perfectly able for at least another 10 years.
The US you have to apply for your license every 5 years and some states do a small test.
I just thought I would update this post.
He is now having deliveries of frozen meals. That is as far as him accepting help will go. He still needs supplies of other foods such as bread and fruit so someone needs to shop for him weekly, even though he still drives when it suits him (god help other road users).
He lies and says he isn't eating, yet evidence of him having eaten is in the bin.
He is CONSTANTLY phoning round relatives saying that he is very ill when he is not. He is telling people that no one visits him and he is all alone, when he gets visits every week.
He is ringing the doctors at least once a week requesting appointments and home visits when there is nothing at all wrong with him. The doctor has referred to the hospital and they have said there is nothing wrong. It is such a waste of NHS resources, and he refuses to take even a paracetamol when he has a cold.
The constant phone calls and messages left on land lines and mobiles is ridiculous and very waring.
He is a selfish, manipulative, liar who is only concerned with his own welfare and doesn't care what this is doing to the mental health of his children.
When people visit he is vile to them, and constantly says how ill and lonely he is.
I often read about how terrible it is that the elderly are alone, but how many of them are alone because they are like my relative.
No one will mourn the loss of this man, they will just be grateful for the release from the problem.
So I just want to send out a big hug to anyone who is in the same position this Christmas. You are not alone.
I am sorry st Domingo a horrible situation for all.concerned
I'm sorry you are still experiencing problems and your relative is still driving..... I think from the official line experts say people do these actions because they are frail, vulnerable and lonely.... I hear this yet still feel even in early dementia etc people can act spitefully and be selfish....
I'm losing patience with my mil I feel horrible about it but the constant repeat requests re everyday tasks are getting on top of me. Even if I have been there 2 hours walked with a walking boot on my leg (a chilled tendon) the mile there still when I'm leaving she advises of another problem or delays my exit.
She has one eye with poor sight she was advised fluid build up again and requires injection but a 4 week wait. 5 days later she gets a call for a cancellation in 4 days. She turns it down because she has a day trip on a coach!arghhhh. She then after a few hours realises her sight is more important calls back but of course the appointment gone. ... so we will listen too oh I've waited a while new appointment 05/01.
Not once when we visited eye clinic did anyone ask if she still drove..I feel there are a lot of people out there that are a danger to themselves and others. .. If the eye clinic asked the question and if they shouldn't drive immediately advise on a national register and car stopped. It's the only way brutal but safe.
My mil refuses to use aids correctly given by the low visual team. Shines the bright led light directly in our eyes it hurts we advise but I have to remember she's vulnerable. I'm sounding bitter but I'm frustrated. I don't wish to be a ft carer at our age and no one talks what if full eye sight goes?
18.12.16 19:57 GMT
Sorry this is still going on. Can I suggest as from.your wording he is a danger on the roads that you not only report hm to the DVLA but also the local police force as well. If he injures or kills someone it could have been prevented.
I'm not sure what we would report him for ?
Other than being 91 and driving like an old man. He hasn't had any accidents.
This would be solved if the DVLA required a driving and hazard perception re-test every so often.
18.12.16 20:43 GMT
Sorry St.Domingo as I haven't read through 'all' the previous posts, but do you know who his G.P is, if so inform them of your concerns & perhaps something could be done. I've known of G.P's being involved in concerns regarding the elderly & driving.
They know he drives. I have spoken to them but not about driving.
18.12.16 21:42 GMT
Perhaps you could raise your concerns with them about his driving. Good luck.
Must say this 70 renewing of Licence by simply having Doctor sign seems daft. I always assumed that they would test for as someone said 'hazard awareness'.
As far as I'm aware no doctor signs his renewal form, he just signs it himself every 3 years.
18.12.16 22:02 GMT
What's his eyesight like? that's one way to get around this if his eyesight is poor
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