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Up Topic Dog Boards / Controversial Stuff / Show Collar?
- By Nova Date 24.05.11 19:59 GMT
Anybody see these in use - what a dreadful idea I hope I never see one in the ring.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Herm-Sprenger-Stainless-Steel-Expert-Show-Collar-3-0mm-/250809380940?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&var&hash=item801052ee75
- By tohme Date 24.05.11 20:09 GMT
I am not sure why you think they are dreadful?  It is just a check chain which is shaped around the neck, often used for showing GSD in.  In fact it is kinder than a lot of cheese wire collars some breeds are shown in!
- By crinklecut [gb] Date 24.05.11 20:09 GMT
OMG, I see they also sell prong collars!
- By tohme Date 24.05.11 20:27 GMT Upvotes 1
Prong collars are available across the UK, they are regularly seen at KC licensed Field Trials on Setters and Pointers; been plenty of photos of them in Shooting Times, The Field etc.  They are legal so any shop can sell them if they wish.
- By Nova Date 24.05.11 20:32 GMT
I am not sure why you think they are dreadful?  It is just a check chain which is shaped around the neck, often used for showing GSD in.  In fact it is kinder than a lot of cheese wire collars some breeds are shown in!

Because they have a wire fashioned into a hook that one assumes will push up into the lower jaw to stop the dog from being able to hold it's head in a natural position.
- By tohme Date 24.05.11 20:37 GMT
No it does nothing of the kind, I suggest you go to a GSD show and watch one being used, it is not a "hook" at all.................. but as it says, a cradle.

Unlike the cheese wires that handler hitch up right under the ears and string up when going round the ring in many breeds!
- By Nova Date 24.05.11 20:39 GMT
I can only go by the picture and the description but if you have used one you will of course know better. Also puzzled why you want to false your dogs head to be carried high.
- By tohme Date 24.05.11 20:39 GMT
No I have not used one, but I have seen them in use, and the picture does not tell you anything does it as it is shown in isolation from the dog. ;)
- By Nova Date 24.05.11 20:41 GMT
The description does suggest it stops the dog lowering it's head.
- By tohme Date 24.05.11 20:41 GMT Edited 24.05.11 20:52 GMT
The same reason as MANY breeds of dogs who are shown have their heads held high, go to any show, very many breeds and very few individuals are shown on a slack lead with their head held unrestricted by the handler! ;)
- By tohme Date 24.05.11 20:43 GMT
ANY collar can be made to stop the dog lowering its head, the same was as thousands of show exhibitors prevent their dogs lowering their head by putting the show lead/collar right up behind the ears and stringing them up.

Hundreds of pictures every week in Our Dogs and Dog World.
- By Boody Date 24.05.11 20:44 GMT
My breed isn't stretched by me and i always try to keep a loose lead, so much nicer for the dog.
- By Nova Date 24.05.11 20:46 GMT
Well as I said you know I do not, but it says that the collar has a cradle that fits high under the neck so it is not flexible and not like a normal long link slip.
- By tohme Date 24.05.11 20:47 GMT
SO do I, my dogs are shown on a loose lead with a natural head carriage to demonstrate their balance and gait, but many are not.
- By tohme Date 24.05.11 20:48 GMT
Not it cradles the neck it is shaped to do so, and not it is not flexible, that is the point of it. 
- By Boody Date 24.05.11 20:49 GMT
I hate the stringing up too if its not natural to the dog then why do it, but theres lots of things i don't get lol.
- By tohme Date 24.05.11 20:50 GMT
I think stringing up often makes the dogs action worse and many of them do not look too thrilled about it either :)
- By Stooge Date 24.05.11 20:51 GMT
When people hold their dogs heads up either by the lead or hand they generally release it and let the dog have a rest when the dog in not under the judges eye don't they? 
Can these collars allow the dog to lower their head when not required or must they stay like that for the whole time they are in the ring?
- By tohme Date 24.05.11 20:53 GMT
They can lower their heads perfectly fine, because the collar remains in place when the lead held by the handler keeps it there, exactly the same as a choke chain.
- By Stooge Date 24.05.11 20:56 GMT
Ah! I see.
- By scotgal2009 [gb] Date 25.05.11 12:58 GMT
I seen a rottie being shown in one of these at the weekend past.
- By Staff [gb] Date 25.05.11 14:32 GMT
I've seen alot of GSD's in these at shows...personally I don't see the point and I don't see the point of choke/check chains either.  I show my Akita and Rottie's on nice loose leads and they move much more naturally than being strung up and forced to hold their head up.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 25.05.11 17:34 GMT
so what kind of collars so you use.

In my breed we either use an all chain half check (harder to get the sizing right) or a fairly fine check chain, especially those pretty snake chains.
- By Austin [gb] Date 25.05.11 23:52 GMT
OMG, I see they also sell prong collars!

Correction, you see thay have the widest selection of prong collars available worldwide.....what's wrong with that?

Is it really so scary?
- By crinklecut [gb] Date 26.05.11 06:23 GMT Edited 26.05.11 06:30 GMT Upvotes 1

>


> Correction, you see thay have the widest selection of prong collars available worldwide.....what's wrong with that?
>
> Is it really so scary?


Point 1) It is not actually a correction as what I stated was true.
Point 2) IMHO yes, I do find it 'scary'. I thought times had moved on from the days of 'barbaric' dog training and handling

Oh, it all makes sense now I have seen your previous post's - am I correct when I say that you market and sell prong collars?
- By Staff [gb] Date 26.05.11 08:55 GMT
My Akita when shown is on a soft material half check and my Rottie is shown on the same but in leather.  I just don't use the full check chains on my dogs.  What I don't like is people who use collars they don't understand...many times with the Rottie's (mainly dogs) I see the dogs with their collars so tight they are struggling to breath and after running they take a long time to recover and get enough air.  I wonder why the dogs are not taught a little bit of obedience so they don't need to be manhandled so much.  I do show for someone else and they have the pretty snake chain but again the dogs are well behaved and no need to pull it tight. 
- By Brainless [gb] Date 26.05.11 10:25 GMT
I largely agree, mine wear the lather half checks as their normal 24/7 collars. 

I used to use the all chain half checks for showing, but just liked how pretty the snake chains are (also there isn't the issue of correct sizing so much), now if they did them in half check I'd have them instead.

As you say because the dogs know the show drill so they do not pull so as to cause any issue with the check chains.

I use chains as they don't show in the coats the way a material or leather collar would.
- By Austin [gb] Date 26.05.11 17:39 GMT
Oh, it all makes sense now I have seen your previous post's - am I correct when I say that you market and sell prong collars?

Yes, you are quite correct, although the term 'barbaric' is usually the rhetoric of someone with little experience or factual information on them.
I've seen and heard a great deal of 'barbaric' use of headcollars, yet they're openly accepted.
I've seen and heard a great deal of bile thrown at owners who use choke chains, yet slip leads are openly accepted.
I've seen and heard a great deal about stress and anxiety caused by certain harnesses, yet their use is often recommended.

Where's the backlash against those "training" tools?  Oops, forgot, they may be cruel and evil, but they look harmless so that's ok then.
Curiosity always gets the better of me, how do you think a prong collar works?
- By Adam P [gb] Date 02.06.11 12:31 GMT
That collar looks ok to me. I guess the jaw bit is designed to elevate the dogs head when pressure is ok the lead. I doubt its very uncomfortable. Not dissimilar to handlers holding the jaw with their hands in a line up.

It certainly doesn't look as uncomfy as a strap across the muzzle that pulls up into the eyes or pulls the skin of the muzzle around or jerks the head to the side when the dog pulls.

Re prongs, very useful and highly acceptable to the dog.

Adam
- By MamaBas Date 08.12.13 11:03 GMT
I'm not sure quite how that collar works, so can't comment.   I would just say that I used either a martingale, fine chain, or a fine choke with my Bassets in the ring, BUT would always move them on a slack lead.   And when I judged, I insisted in seeing the hound move on a loose lead.   Too many handlers string their dogs up, creating a false gait.   It's often done to 'disguise' poor front movement - the poor hound is so strung up on the move that it's front feet barely touch the ground.   And in America especially, where they do pull the collar right up behind the ears, how many would take a few steps and then shake their heads because the collar being that high irritated them, at which point they'd actually stumble!!!    In the stack, mine would be what's called 'topped and tailed', but with their head held at a normal angle, if needing to be held at all.   So many handlers of my main breed these days appear to think they have a Coonhound - head angled up a tree!!
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- By Akitamummy [gb] Date 29.03.15 18:34 GMT Upvotes 2
I'm afraid I dislike every herm sprenger collar I've ever seen, they IMO are nothing but torture device manufacturers maybe used 'correctly' they are not there to harm the animal (I hope) however I feel there are to many fools out there that will misuse these either intentionally or unintentionally... and as for the show collar.. it's artificial and a cheat method... hold your dog or use a treat... Jheez
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Up Topic Dog Boards / Controversial Stuff / Show Collar?

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