Champdogs Information Exchange
After coming across that advert for Danedoodles!!! I'm killing some time and having a brew while my baby daughter has a very rare daytime nap and have just come across an advert for somebody making mating cradles to order!!!
Maybe its my post pregnancy hormones but it actually made me cry as to what these will most probably be used for and the dogs emotional state whilst being in them. Or have I just become so untrusting and cynical that Ive got it wrong.
I saw some nasty contraptions on an american site, so its not your hormones as it upset me as well.
This was advocated by a vet.
I think they are used for bulldogs and the like, to support the weight of the dog. It's a difficult one as I would like to stand by my principles and say that only natural matings should occur, and that if dogs can't breed unaided they should not be bred. BUT how do we define natural? My previous two stud dogs were always assisted, just to find the right spot then held there till tied - is this natural? Zois and silkens rarely need c sections but for other breeds they are common place - is this natural? Is using a cradle to support weight natural? If not is having someone there to hold the bitch up natural?
I think there's a difference between limited intervention to prevent injury during the natural process, and full intervention to enable the process to happen at all.
> I think there's a difference between limited intervention to prevent injury during the natural process, and full intervention to enable the process to happen at all.
I agree, but sometimes it's hard to see where the line is. I've had semen manually collected from my boy to send overseas, not natural but helpful for the breed. If these cradles simply help the bitch support the weight of the stud is that wrong? I don't know. I wouldn't like to use it myself, but at most matings 2 people are required, is this different?
> I wouldn't like to use it myself,
Sorry, just being silly :-D
where did that rolling eye smiley go to......
Presumably the boy whose semen was collected was capable of mating the bitch naturally had she been there? If so, and there was no possibility of getting her there, that's again a slightly different matter. Two people assisting a mating are there to allow a natural mating to occur as safely as possible for both dog and bitch - to prevent the bitch pulling away at the critical moment, for example - not to make it happen at all. Once full penetration has occurred the handlers are only there to stop one or other wandering off during the tie, dragging the other behind them! The two should be able to do it all by themselves given enough time, but both might get hurt in the process.
A cradle to support a bitch suggests that either the bitch isn't very strong or the dog is too heavy - so use a lighter dog or a stronger bitch. Mechanical support like this means the pairing is wrong.
08.11.10 22:15 GMT
> A cradle to support a bitch suggests that either the bitch isn't very strong or the dog is too heavy - so use a lighter dog or a stronger bitch. Mechanical support like this means the pairing is wrong.
I understand that for the duration of the tie that both dogs need to be kept calm to prevent damage but from the look of the cradles the bitch is positioned so she can't move (some even appear to have straps), it fills me with horror that a so called aid can be used like that. I know I'm humanising it but I'd call that rape and if that amount of support is required then it should not happen.
Is using a cradle to support weight natural?
The question that appears here is, is the dog not able to turn around? I've never known a stud dog to remain on top of the bitch, they all get down and stay tied side by side or bottom to bottom. Why should the bitch need to be able to take the dog's weight for more than a few seconds?
08.11.10 23:25 GMT
> silkens rarely need c sections but for other breeds they are common place
And therein lies a debate! :-)
I have a breed that is known for problematic whelpings. I have been working for years to produce a line of self whelpers, I feel very strongly about this, even though I know most folk with the breed don't bat an eyelid when mating a bitch that they know is going to have problems.
If we are trying to improve a breed, that, for me, is part of it. So I also have a problem with breeds that need supporting. Yes, I assist, but only from a safety aspect, and, as some have said, helping them to get the right target.
While all of us are there to ensure any help is given at the whelping, I still think we should be aiming for a natural whelping. I really don't like the fact that some accept elective sections as the norm.
> I'd call that rape and if that amount of support is required then it should not happen.
I'd agree with you.
I imagine the cradle would actually make it more difficult to mate. The back bar sits right under the flanks.... Surely this is squashing the vaginal tract anyway making it painful and virtually impossible to penetrate deep enough to achieve a tie???
They are horrid things,no need for them and 90% of bulldog breeders do not use them,it must be awful for the bitch to be strapped to
it a dog do his bit and then gone,I know they dont need foreplay lol but Im 100% against them.
11.11.10 13:49 GMT
When I typed in mating cradle into search engine, came up with a Welsh site with some 'interesting' looking characters who don't look to have the IQ to have thought of that.
11.11.10 14:02 GMT
I say ban them, there is no need for them and would be horrified if I took my bitch to a stud and they wheeled it out.
LOL Im saying nothing ;)
> I say ban them, there is no need for them and would be horrified if I took my bitch to a stud and they wheeled it out.
And i would run a mile. Makes you think twice about AI being accepted, I think if that's what's needed. I'm not in the AI corner but it necesity then advice and support should be offered.
Are these the cradles they use in fighting dogs? Seen it on animals cops awhile back where the bitch is put in one so she can not turn around and attack a male- don't matter if they are willing to mate being another dog they just want to fight- sad :-( Guess its to protect both bitch and dog and get a mating...
12.11.10 13:29 GMT
> When I typed in mating cradle into search engine
After reading your comment, I did the same! I can't believe that there is a load of codswallop explaining how luxurious these things are with lovely deep sheepskin. Yet not one of the bitches I saw had any padding, they were just strapped down tight. Those bitches didn't have any way to move at all.
12.11.10 13:47 GMT
rape rack was the term i've heard used to describe them.
12.11.10 17:32 GMT
> LOL Im saying nothing ;-)
Yes Carolyn, but we know why you aren't!
WHY................I hate them and wouldnt own one even if it were free.
I heard them called Rape Rack as well- cruel device :-(
ive had alook and i really dont like the look of them :(
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