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Up Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / when can you see pups on a scan?
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- By orangedog [gb] Date 30.10.10 09:15 GMT
Hi i another question sorry folks!!! I had my girl mated  29/9 at 8pm and then 1/10 about 4pm, she went for a scan yesterday but nothing showed?  The vet seems to think it maybe to early and she goes back next thurs 4/11.  I had the idexx test done and was told to take her on the 29th but the vet is counting from the 30th as it was late in the day so best if taken straight away could be 29 days if she didnt take until the 1/10 plus a couple of days to take then she'd be 25/26 days. She has been poorly (diarrohea and sickness) so i've been told she may of lost them from other doggy people the vet won't commit either way and i really want to know if she is or not as my friends friend (if that makes sense) needs to re home her bitch as she has changed jobs and can't be there for her :( I will have her as long as my girl isn't pregnant. When do they usually show??
- By Brainless [gb] Date 30.10.10 09:23 GMT
Depends how expert the scanner is. 

I had a bitch scanned and pronounced to be carrying an average size litter of about 6 or 7 at 24 days after the first mating, and she went onto have 9 pups. 

The vet doing the scanning was a scan specialist that most often scanned for tumours.

Many vets are not very good at it, usually trying to look too low down.  it becomes easier as the pregnancy advances, but usually by 35 days you can see if a bitch is in whelp unless it's a small litter.

Some vets are better at Palpating (feeling for the foetuses) which is best down at 23 - 28 days, after which it can't be done as too much fluid prevents one from distinguishing foetal units.
- By KaneFizz [gb] Date 30.10.10 09:33 GMT
Hello I have only maited twice but my girls started show ata bout 6weeks visually that is. I have never scanned before but I am planning to with my toy bitch I had mated on 20,21 and 22nd (October) and the scanner told me to bring her on 16th (November) so that would be 27 days however my own vet wanted to scan at 6 weeks but I refused because I assumed at that time I'd probably know if she was pregant by looking at her. Its possible you lost them through absorption but personally I'd just wonder if my vet is competent enough to scan? Maybe try a specialist in your area. Search on google.

Good luck I hope she is pregnant however if she isn't at least you can have a new doggy addition.
- By Goldmali Date 30.10.10 09:39 GMT Upvotes 1
Even when I used a sheep scanner she said she no longer will do it before 35 days as she had told too many breeders their bitches weren't pregnant and then they were.
- By orangedog [gb] Date 30.10.10 10:02 GMT
My vet did feel her tummy but said couldnt feel anything but she is a big dog (Bernard) so he didn't seem bothered about that,  Does the sheep scanner take the 35th day from the first mating? If so i should know on next thurs scan?  I'm just worried about bringing this other bitch into the house if she is as ive been told that can cause her to abort them? I obviously want her to be pregnant and not have lost them and I would sort out a walking regime etc with the other dog until she has had the pups then I would still take the other dog i think. But 4 giant breeds in my house maybe fun :)
- By SharonM Date 30.10.10 10:08 GMT
I can see pups (if there are any) from 21 days
- By white lilly [gb] Date 30.10.10 10:12 GMT
is that with any breed size sharonM ? x
- By Onderka [gb] Date 30.10.10 10:54 GMT
My toy breed was scanned 28 days after the 3rd mating and the vet could see two feotus's, we did end up with three tho
- By orangedog [gb] Date 30.10.10 12:46 GMT
Soes that mean you do scanning sharonm?
- By SharonM Date 30.10.10 12:52 GMT

>is that with any breed size sharonM ? x

I scanned a friends Jack Russell and saw pups at 21 days, I have medium sized breed and can pick them up around the same time too.

>Soes that mean you do scanning sharonm?

I have a scanner but it's for my own use really
- By orangedog [gb] Date 30.10.10 14:12 GMT
Ok no problem i was just going to see if you would scan her for me if you were a scanner person( if that makes sense) because it sounds as though you are good at it, and some have said it depends how good the vet is at doing the scans. Do you think if she was pregnant we would of seen them on yesterdays scan?
- By Noora Date 30.10.10 17:16 GMT
Why not have a look if there is anybody who does scanning near you?
I found my lady by putting down dog ultrasound/pregnancy scanning and the city I like in...

Vets can be good if they know what they are doing but can also be very bad if they don't!

I have had my giant breed scanned at 30 days and babies were very easy to see.
- By perrodeagua [gb] Date 30.10.10 17:17 GMT
Just had my girl scanned today at 34 days and there's nothing.  Can't believe it as she's bigger now than she usually is at 8 weeks. Story of my life recently can't wait for 2010 to end, it's been a rubbish years.  Those who don't really care about the breed and only money seem to have large litters.  I'm doing something wrong!
- By orangedog [gb] Date 31.10.10 11:23 GMT
Ahh Sorry to hear she has taken :( fingers crossed try again in 2011 and hopefully its a better year:)  Iknow what you mean about people breeding for money I just hope my girl is pregnant I only want the 1 for me to keep although ideally I would prefer a larger litter as I'm worried how big the pups would be in a small litter and if she'll have problems at birth. 
- By white lilly [gb] Date 31.10.10 11:34 GMT
maybe with a only 1 in the litter ther are more likely to have problems ,i have a large breed and my girl only had 3 she had her pups with no problems at all ;) xx

also so sorry your girl didnt chatch ,ive alway thought this too :(
- By orangedog [gb] Date 31.10.10 11:40 GMT
Ok ive googled for ultrasound on dogs ad sheep scanner in my area but nothing is coming up.....does anyone know of a sheep scanner in leicester
- By white lilly [gb] Date 31.10.10 11:58 GMT
i know a very good scanner that does it from her house in derby if thats any good ,she does come to your home too but that costs more money, we go to her and its only £20 shes good wth numbers too x
- By Reikiangel [gb] Date 31.10.10 12:30 GMT
I recommend the Derby one and there is also a lady in Nuneaton who scans.  I'll find her number for you. 
- By orangedog [gb] Date 01.11.10 11:52 GMT
Hi all, just got back from a lady i found in belton/loughborough that does canine scanning and she say definately nothing in there she worked it out she would be 30/31 days so she say she would be able to see them by now :( So it looks like no pups :(
- By K9OURS [gb] Date 01.11.10 11:58 GMT
Awwww sorry to here that:( its never easy hearing the news is it, especially as so much research,planning expense goes into the wonderful world of breeding.  Fingers crossed for next time.

- By Reikiangel [gb] Date 01.11.10 12:05 GMT
Sorry to hear your news.  Fingers crossed for next time.

Has she offered you a rescan.  There is always a chance your girl took late.
- By orangedog [gb] Date 01.11.10 12:15 GMT
Thanks Reikiangelx  No she didn't she says they start to inbed at 21 days so even if she took late she should be able to see them by now:( Gutted for her. Unfortunately there won't be a next time this was it x
- By Emz77 [gb] Date 01.11.10 16:09 GMT
my girl is 32 days today and had scan and yes you can see something... I was asked to go back as they think she took later than her mating date 30/09 they didn't look as developed as they would like to have seen for the dates, but there is definitely something there.... Sorry to hear that things didn't go right for you...
- By orangedog [gb] Date 01.11.10 18:41 GMT
I'm glad there is something show hope it all goes well for you
- By Tracyd [gb] Date 01.11.10 22:50 GMT
Hiya I am so glad that your scan went well.  I phoned the vets again to change appointment time and they have told me to put it back another week (until she is about 4.5 weeks).  Time is going so slow.
- By Tracyd [gb] Date 01.11.10 22:51 GMT
Orangedog I am so sorry to hear you have been unsuccessful I know how you feel we had that back in April this year hopefully she will be pregnant this time.
- By Reikiangel [gb] Date 02.11.10 07:56 GMT
Sorry to hear your not going to try again.  Things might be better next time.  Wonder if it was from her being 'poorly'?  I'm on 3rd try with my girl, when she obiges with her season, i think its just been miss timed so far and got unlucky.

Maybe in a few months you might have a change of heart.  Its not nice when the disapointment comes aftrer all the anticipation and you've had her poorly on top.

Try not to give up just yet.  Can you have a return mating, maybe with a different dog from the breeder.  Is this her first try?
- By perrodeagua [gb] Date 02.11.10 08:12 GMT
You can always have her tested to make sure you get the right day.  Will do it now with Carmen.  Fit and Fertile now are doing the same test as Idexx.
- By orangedog [gb] Date 03.11.10 11:21 GMT
Hi this would be her 2nd litter.  The 1st time we took her on day 10 and 14, she took and went on to have 11pups :) but because i really wanted a pup from her this time because i let my pup go from the last litter as 1 of them died from meningitus at 6 weeks and his potential new owners were distraut so i let them have the pup i chose to keep :( we had the idexx test done so we knew she was ready,  but i think with her being poorly she either didn't take or if she did and she has absorbed them.  I can have a second mating but to be honest if i was to do it again i think i would go back to my initial breeder they are lovely people and so so helpful all the way through.
- By Rachelshihtzus [gb] Date 26.10.12 11:54 GMT Edited 13.11.12 22:42 GMT
Hi can anyone help I mated my bitch 4 weeks ago with a proven stud they tied for about 25 mins but she is showing no signs of pregnancy so I took her for a scan today and vet couldn't see any pups just some fluid in her uterus ?? Could they be hiding or do u think she isn't pregnant at all :(
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 26.10.12 11:56 GMT
What day in her season was she mated? Had you done any premate blood tests to determine the optimum day or did you take a chance on the average 'Day 11' to do it?
- By Rachelshihtzus [gb] Date 26.10.12 11:56 GMT Edited 13.11.12 22:43 GMT
Hi I have a bitch mated 4 weeks ago , vets just scanned her and said he can't see any just fluid in her uterus ?? Do u think she could still be pregnant or not ? Help ??
- By Rachelshihtzus [gb] Date 26.10.12 11:58 GMT
Hi I mated her on the 13th day it was the only day she would allow him to I took her on the 11th day but she kept snapping at him :(
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 26.10.12 12:02 GMT
It could still have been too early. I'd scan again in a week just to make sure.
- By Lexy [gb] Date 26.10.12 13:31 GMT
I had my bitch scan at just over 4 weeks & its was plain to see she was in whelp. I knew she was before I had her scanned but the scan just confirmed it.
- By JenP Date 26.10.12 17:45 GMT
I've just had my girl scanned at 29 days, although I did idexx test and mated two days after ovulation, and the scan was clearly showing that she had taken.
- By frankie11 [gb] Date 04.11.12 11:45 GMT

New to the forum but not to having dogs.

I had my bitch scanned at 31 days from first mating and the vet took her time scanning eventually found one pup, i asked if she could maybe be hiding any in her ribcage so she turned my girl around and scanned again but still only found one, i knew she was pregnant as vulva had not gone back to normal size and had white stringy discharge only has when she is in whelp but she was not thickening in her tummy at all (this is her second litter) she had 6 pups last time but i knew she was pregnant so didn't have her scanned last time.

5 years ago when i had my other bitch scanned i could clearly see 4 pups and heartbeats as well, it was a different vet the other side of the country though as i have moved since then.

When i asked the vet this time if she could see a heartbeat i was told not at this stage and only by really expensive scanners.

Just wondering if some could be hiding in the ribcage? and if anyone has had a scan to be told only one and had more, just i feel it may be right as it took the vet so long to find the pup, its a shame i can't mention the breed as maybe this would help.
- By Rhodach [gb] Date 04.11.12 21:17 GMT
Is it a small or large breed, you are allowed to say, large breeds with deep chests can hide pups till late on, as to the scan it is only as good as the person doing it.

My small breed I don't see much change before 5 weeks then they get big very quickly.
- By Alfieshmalfie Date 04.11.12 22:24 GMT
I had my girl (medium gundog breed) scanned at 21 days past first mating by a normal vet scanner at a small Veterinary Hospital.  You could see large black circles straightway each with a little peanut shaped pup in and they did the blood flow option on the scan to pick up the heartbeat even that early.

When my girl missed earlier in the year, I had her scanned at 31 days and there was just grey shading, no signs of any black holes at all and it was obvious straight away that she had missed.
- By darwinawards Date 05.11.12 09:30 GMT
My girl was scanned by my local vet who confirmed pregnancy, but could see only one.

After being scared witless by "singleton" posts and the worry of inertia etc... (and the fact she already looked a different shape) I decided to have her scanned again. I found a very experienced scanner who confirmed six babies.

Four weeks later my girl went on to self whelp six beautiful babies. She was two days over her due date and if I had gone with my initial vets scan of a singleton pup would probably already have c-sectioned her.

I have since always used the lady with the scanner, rather than my vet, and she has been 100% accurate every time. She laughingly says that the scanning machine is only ever as good as the person who operates it......
- By Esme [gb] Date 05.11.12 10:48 GMT

> Just wondering if some could be hiding in the ribcage?

Yes, that's often the case with large breeds. I've never had an accurate count yet for my big girls. But my Toy bitch has been scanned accurately for both her litters. Obviously the small breed has far fewer puppies. I tried a different scanner this time. Her name's Sam Wilkinson and I can look out her contact details if you want. She's based in Bedfordshire I think, but does travel and is at Wey Farm in Surrey each Wednesday.

Also Sam told me to leave it to 35 days before coming to lessen the chance of absorption.
- By frankie11 [gb] Date 13.11.12 18:10 GMT Edited 13.11.12 22:44 GMT
She is a medium sized breed, she is now 7 weeks, has huge nipple vulva etc but does not look big in the ribcage at all, she is without a doubt pregnant but apart from the nipples etc does not look it, she has not come out at the sides but instead is dropping in down, last time she was huge at the sides, like a barrel.

I am thinking of having her scanned again just incase the vet is right and its just one pup, or if she has reabored as i dont want to put her threw a c section if there is nothing there.

Failing that i hav always been able to feel pups at around 54 days and even been able to judge how many are in there (if only one out)!

I also have my toy breed in pup at the same time, both due the same day, this will be her first litter, really looking forward to it all, but i know i will be a walking zombie for the next 8 weeks or so.

The vet saw 2-3 pups on her scan so be interesting to see how right she is. you can definatly tell my frenchie is having pups she is huge.
- By frankie11 [gb] Date 14.11.12 11:01 GMT
Well looks like i cannot mention my breed after all as my post has been moderated, so does not help to much but the one with only one showing on the scan is a thick set medium size breed both my dogs are utilty.

she is 7 weeks today and not looking big at all just another week to go thogh and i will let you all know if the scan was indeed correct, but going by her size compared to her last litter i would say the scan may just be correct.
- By Rhodach [gb] Date 14.11.12 20:40 GMT
Does your breed normally whelp a week early?
- By frankie11 [gb] Date 14.11.12 22:51 GMT
no, tend to go into labour around 60 days with my med bitch which most need c sections for.

My other breed mainly have to have c sections too, but this will be her first litter and i have not bred from this breed before so not too sure about lentgh but have been told from 60 days also
- By frankie11 [gb] Date 14.11.12 22:54 GMT
oh sorry i think you have asked that due to me saying she is 7 weeks and i will know in a week, well they will both be 60 days a week this friday so i will be expecting them anytime from then, as my meduim sized breed have all tended to have gone into labour from 60 days not had one last to 63 days, although they have c sections i wait until the temp has dropped and wait until there are about to go into labour.
- By Stooge Date 15.11.12 17:05 GMT

> although they have c sections

You appear to be taking that for granted. Surely you would not breed if it was a certainty. 
Hopefully, eventually, the KCs new rules on registering litters after previous sections will reduce the incidence of this occuring but surely to goodness breeders should be trying their utmost to breed from free whelping animals!
- By frankie11 [gb] Date 15.11.12 19:57 GMT
Of course i do not take her for granted!!!
Not all breeds are able to self whelp. i am not a huge breeder only breed if i intend to show and keep a pup for myself.
My bitches only have a max of two litters please do not assume to know me!
- By Brainless [gb] Date 15.11.12 20:15 GMT
Stooge you would be shocked and surprised that in some countries some people proudly never allow natural mating and C section all their bitches by choice even in breeds that normally whelp easily.

I was horrified to say the least with their attitude (they were criticising our KC new rule re no litters after two sections).

They were all about using the science in breeding, to maximise survival etc.
- By Rhodach [gb] Date 15.11.12 20:16 GMT
So these dogs are having " ELLECTIVE " C/sections, not getting the chance to see if they can whelp naturally?  This is the reason the new 2 c/section limit came about to stop breeders thinking it is OK to c/section routinely, we should be aiming for self whelping lines and bitch pups from dams who can't self whelp shouldn't be bred from either, the only way to find out if a bitch can self whelp is let her have a go and if she fails to progress then take her to the vets.

You say you only allow your bitches to have 2 litters born by c/section, the new rule stops further litters being registered even if whelped naturally.
Up Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / when can you see pups on a scan?
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