Champdogs Information Exchange
14.08.10 08:51 GMT
Hi , I have a girl that is currently 6 weeks pregnant and last night as she came for a cuddle , I noticed a flea scurry across her belly . I am gutted as I had kept her up to date with frontline up to mating but hadn't treated her since , so she was last treated 6 weeks ago as she went to the stud dog . After phoning round a few vets in my area , they have all said they have noticed a reduced effectiveness in the frontline ( one of them doesn't even stock it anymore ) and all reccomended Advantage . Has anyone any experience of using this is a pregnant bitch at all ? Thankyou .
14.08.10 10:28 GMT
The only thing that I would consider safe for a pregnant bitch is Frontline. Definitely NOT spot on. Only use the spray. I'm afraid that even if a vet had noticed reduced effectiveness, I would still stay with something proven to be safe.
I had a bitch very pregnant one summer, and, like you, only saw one fast moving little blighter. I got rid by using Frontline spray, and the bitch was fine, and so were her pups when she whelped. I would just do her again with the spray if she was mine. I didn't even spray my girl all over, just blasted the flea. It worked for me.
14.08.10 11:24 GMT
14.08.10 11:27 GMT
Advantage has NOT been tested for use on pregnant bitches!!!!
It contains chemicals that are not safe to use on pregnant bitches. Have a look on their own web site for confirmation of this.
Do vets EVER read the contraindications given by the manufacturers?!!
Have you had a good look through her coat to see if there are more? It may be it's just one that's hopped on from a passer by. I was gutted last year to find a flea on one of my dogs ... but it was just the one and I know exactly who it had jumped ship from ... a neighbour's dog who I'd told her on my way home from the dog walk that the tummy problem it had was a flea allergy! Might be worth checking her before splashing chemicals on.
Frontline spot on is also not safe for pregnant bitches - you would have to check manufacturers site for the spray though. I use none of these chemical treatments.
14.08.10 11:41 GMT
Hi , yes , I have now seen others , and on my other girls ! I have got my vets to fax me a copy of the information leaflet and it states that although tests are limited on pregnant and lactating bitches , no adverse effects have been seen . I had used frontline ( again on vets advise ) as she went to be mated so I guess I may have done damage then too :o( She was scanned at 32 days and 4 pups were seen , and 10 days later she is blossoming ... I am just so confused as obviously I don't want the fleas to stay , but don't want to harm my girl or pups ....
14.08.10 13:47 GMT
i have a cat that has 'issues' with spray on flea spray so have not treated him in years as had multiple animals and found the spot on stuff rather dear.
my method which worked was to get him out the house and treat everyone else and spray the house. being as fleas spend very little time on their hosts and majority on furnishings etc that cleared the problem without putting chemicals on him.
14.08.10 14:17 GMT
If your girl can tolerate Garlic, start feeding her some with meals, just once a day.. not the odourless garlic.. ideally real garlic clove is best, bur failing that.. garlic capsules from Holland and Barratt.. It wont kill any fleas already nesting in the house.. but it will keep the fleas off your girl
14.08.10 14:40 GMT
> If your girl can tolerate Garlic, start feeding her some with meals, just once a day.. not the odourless garlic.. ideally real garlic clove is best, bur failing that.. garlic capsules from Holland and Barratt.. It wont kill any fleas already nesting in the house.. but it will keep the fleas off your girl
would it work if I made up some sort of spray as she's being very funny about her food at the moment ....
14.08.10 14:52 GMT
14.08.10 14:55 GMT
If she wont take a garlic tablet in food, then it's a just 'no nonsense, straight down the throat' jobby :-) My dogs love garlic, so if using real garlic you may find it actually gets her eating.
Just noticed - have you changed user name since your first post or are you split personality?! :-)
14.08.10 14:56 GMT
> would it work if I made up some sort of spray as she's being very funny about her food at the moment
Do you mean to spray on her? If so.. not sure, I have never heard of this.. and you would need to spray on quite a bit to cover her coat.. so I would not consider doing this..
Will she perhaps lick some garlic granules from your fingers
Garlic works through the skin, the odour seeps through and fleas are repelled.. I have only ever know this to work from ingestion.. maybe someone else knows if a spray would work
14.08.10 15:00 GMT
> Just noticed - have you changed user name since your first post or are you split personality?! :-)
Lol , no , I'd forgotten my password so created a new account ... then realised I could find it out again !!! Sorry , 5 kids , 5 dogs , rainy weather , broken foot , school holidays and general stress atm , not very with it !!!!!
You sound like you're having a worse time than me!! Hope the foot sorts soon, can't say I hope the school holidays end for you soon (I teach :-( ) but do hope it stops raining!
14.08.10 15:09 GMT
> You sound like you're having a worse time than me!! Hope the foot sorts soon, can't say I hope the school holidays end for you soon (I teach :-( ) but do hope it stops raining
Yeah , I'm torn too !!!! I work at a pre school part time so want the hols to go on forever , but my pups are due on 4th Sept so looking forward to that ... but could also have another 5 weeks in plaster , and kids getting fed up as we can't get out and do anything ! Never mind , OH gone to tesco for garlic so we'll give it a go :-)
Fingers crossed the broken foot gives you some paid sick leave to spend more time with pups :-) :-) Though not wanting to prolong your inconvenience, of course! Good luck with the galic.
14.08.10 16:45 GMT
Thankyou ... I only work for an hour at lunchtimes so its not too bad ... not even sure I will want to go back once I've got pups ;-) Garlic is here and about to go into the bowls for a first attempt so here goes !!! :-)
I have definately seen a reduced effectiveness of Frontline. Have used Advantage in the past. But do not use it in pregnant bitches. What about the spray or ask about a shampoo or powder. I have treated mine orally this time and touch wood good results. Also had a good spray about and a clear out of bedding. I do add garlic to my dogs food, but again in a pregnant bitch check first.
Frontline spot on is safe to use in pregnant and nursing bitches . It goes as far as the sebaceous cells of the skin. To understand how all these treatments work, the life cycle of the flea has to be clearly understood including the pupae stage which there is no household spray which will penetrate this only a silicone treatment which will keep it at bay for about 6 weeks. The flea will emerge when it feels like it in an instant and will lie cocooned for up to a year.
I attended a seminar recently as I am qualified to sell Frontline and of course therefore use it myself. The question of resistance was of course raised. If fl did not work it would not pass the licensing tests. Because it kills new fleas, you may have to treat the house for as long as the problem existed to keep killing the emerging fleas that are by now in the environment. 95% of fleas are not on your dog or cat. That is accepted in all circles. The contention of some is that the view that FL does not work has increased since people other than vets can sell it. Reviews of products recently has extended this to Advantage when new packaging is developed.
Whatever solution you go for, I hope it works for you because I feel very sorry for anyone with the problem.
Good luck with everything.
14.08.10 19:36 GMT
Hi , sorry Diane , but are you saying that the Advantage is safe to use ? And do you know of a household spray that is also safe ( I had had Acclaim reccomended ) ... many thanks :-)
Diane, how often do you think the house should be treated if fleas are suspected? Every few days/weekly or more often.I use Genitrix RIP and have been spraying the house every few weeks just to be on the safe side.
I do find flea baths effective as the pressure of the water blasts any fleas off.I tend to use Frontline then bath about a week later so any fleas that are groggy but not quite dead get blasted off.
The environmental sprays are supposed to last 6 to 12 months so reusing them every few weeks is only useful if new fleas are big brought in on the dogs, but treating the animals should cure that.
Also the Frontline works best if it is not bathed off the animal and in fact they should not be bathed before or after application as your washing out the oils in the coat which are supposed to disperse and contain/anchor the poison.
Thats the problem,Brainless,the 2 dogs that come to work with me are picking up fleas from other dogs and as 3 of mine are very allergic to fleas I can't afford for there to be any in the house at all.
When I tried Frontline on its own I was still finding live fleas(could just be that my dogs are too clean-as you say there aren't enough oils in their coats).
I've also tried a combination of Capstar tablets plus a flea bath the same day.And I have now decided that if I find any fleas on customers dogs my dogs have to have a flea bath before they come home.There do seem to be a lot of the nasty little creatures around this year.
It goes as far as the sebaceous cells of the skin.
That's what it's SUPPOSED to do, in 5% of cases it enters the blood stream - great stuff!!
Well I have used Frontline for years on numerous animals ( cat and dog ) and never had a problem. Merial the manufacturers are really helpful and if it does more than it says on the tin as you have said then they must investigate. The particular seminar was run by the Merial technical vet and her talk was fascinating.
I currently use Indorex in my grooming parlour night and morning as I also take my youngest to work. I do get dogs with fleas and I am paranoid about them on my own and other people's dogs but using Frontline I hope to keep them at bay. I gather Acclaim is also a really good spray and Johnsons have just brought out a new one called Extra Guard which is a bit cheaper, works on eggs and larvae for 6 months Indorex is 12 months and I suspect Acclaim is too. Whatever and how many times you treat and I suggest the more regular the better with the house, the animals need to be removed from that space for a period so I would not spray directly in the area they are in. I believe Advantage works similarly to Frontline but needs applying more frequently, does not deal with ticks. I believe also it has some affect on flea larvae too. Have never used Advantage so need to find out more but I know Frontline is OK if applied once the coat is dry and shoul not be affected by bathing weekly but more frequently its efficiently will reduce.
hope this is of some help
There are so many products to choose from it is a massive subject that I am trying to learn about all the time
14.08.10 22:11 GMT
14.08.10 22:14 GMT
Dont get me wrong, I like Frontline, but I do feel that maybe tolerance can be built up a bit like the headlice in children. Usually I rotate frontline and advantage, but I decided due to the cost of frontline and advantage, I thought I would try Capstar. It has always been effective to rotate. This is the first year for a while that I have had a problem. I remember a rew years back having issues, maybe its because its been so so hot and then so so wet! Best of luck with your litter.
Thanks Diane.I have got so fed up with dogs coming in with fleas I have a complete ban on grooming dogs with them-its just not fair on the other customers-if dogs have had fleas once they get thoroughly checked over when they come in the next time,but so far this year a few have slipped through the net.
And another thing-I've heard a few horror stories about some of the over-the-counter flea treatments like Bob Martin and Johnson's-do you know anything about the ingredients used in them?
Merial do have all the facts. I just think it's important to accept that whilst in the majority of uses it's fine, but there is a proportion that it isn't. I used to use it until I met one of those dogs in the 5% ... epileptic fits, very ill and 18 months of medication all paid for by Merial during law suit proceedings :-(
The other thing Merial don't say on the package is the damage it causes to water life. It nicely tells you not to let your dog go into water for 24 or 48 hours after application - with the 'implication' it will reduce effectiveness. What they don't say is that you shouldn't actually allow your dog into any watercourse for 5-7 days as it completely anhialiates all the water life - also very much proven.
Yeah, ok it's a bit of a hobby horse, but important that people really have a good think about the chemicals they apply to their dogs, just 'cause sold for dogs or sold by vets, doesn't necessarily mean they are totally risk free. :-)
have you heard of Program? i give my dogs one tablet per month to prevent development of flee larvae. Of couse you'd have to get rid of existing flees first before treating them with Program. It is safe for all dogs including pregnant bitches and weaned puppies from a body weight of at least 2.3kg and compatible with other flee treatment.
Might be something to speak with your vet about for future...
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