Champdogs Information Exchange
I am not a breeder and do not no alot about these things but I have just seen an advert selling a puppy at just five weeks old, I didn't know that they have even finished weaning the poor thing , is this allowed .Thanks
What on earth goes through these peoples minds, the las tlitter I brought up I thought I was going to have to keep longer than 8 weeks as I didn't think they were eating properly by themselves. 5 weeks never and I am sure this is not allowed. Kennel Club do state on their site 8 Weeks, People do let them go at 6 but I have never hear of 5 weeks. Whatever next.
11.07.08 06:27 GMT
Oh what a shame :-( Poor little chap.
It shouldn't be allowed and hopefully the potential owners will just offer to leave deposit and collect him in 3 weeks when he is ready !!
11.07.08 07:10 GMT
>an advert selling a puppy at just five weeks old
I might be wrong but I thought it was now illegal to sell a puppy under 8 weeks of age?
11.07.08 07:20 GMT
Just a thought... but perhaps they were only advertising the puppy at 5 weeks old , in order to have the best possible home ready for it when ready at 8 weeks !
>Kennel Club do state on their site 8 Weeks
The KC site actually says about buying a puppy:"The ideal age to buy is between seven and eight weeks old."
>I thought it was now illegal to sell a puppy under 8 weeks of age?
No, the Sale of Dogs Act
still applies; a licenced breeder can only sell puppies under 8 weeks to a pet shop (not a private individual), but non-licenced breeders can sell them at any age.
Why aren't all the rules the same, but 5 weeks is a joke.
11.07.08 08:41 GMT
11.07.08 08:44 GMT
Would it make a difference? Sadly not all breeders ( I use the term loosley in this context), are in it for the good of the breed/ dogs. Sadly it is the £ £ £ £ signs they see. Any of us that have had litters know how hard it gets by 6 weeks, dogs everywhere, and
if the jobs done properly there are not many of those £'s for us LOL
11.07.08 08:45 GMT
>a licenced breeder can only sell puppies under 8 weeks to a pet shop (not a private individual) >non-licenced breeders can sell them at any age
Appalling, especially when you think these 'acts' have been introduced to supposedly protect animals.
My pups are 7 weeks now and hard work .................its gonna break my heart letting them go as it is let alone letting them going when they are 5 weeks which is still a vunrable age. Even if there were complications with the mum not feeding etc i wouldnt let them leave the safety of my house
I got one of my dogs at 5 weeks old 8 years ago, tho not by choice, a young lady knocked on my door and said her GSD had puppies (without them knowing she was pregnant, or who and what breed the father was) and her boyfriend was going to drowned them if she didnt find homes, she was really upset and desperate to find a home for her, how could i refuse. She said there was only 2 and she had found a home for the other pup, (not sure if this was true, but i hope it was) i felt like killing him (she refused to tell me who and where he was) but my main concern was this little puppy bitch, luckily i had an older collie bitch who acted like a surragate mother to her, she would even let her try and suckle from her, tho there was no milk for her to drink.
8 years on and she is still here with me, and she is one of the best dogs anyone could ask for, i hate them for what they done, but can't thank them enough for my beautiful girl Shady, from the first day i saw her i said she would stay with me for the rest of her life, and she will.
My 'friend' got one at 3 weeks old!!!!! I can't even bear to think about it. I don't know how she's feeding it or what with and even if the poor thing is still alive.
11.07.08 10:22 GMT
That's so sad :-(
I know - the picture I saw it was smaller than a pair of sunglasses.
She is definitely not the most responsible person and I doubt she found it abandoned (the only 'valid' reason I can think of) and as it is a staff x I doubt she'll be an ambassador of the breed. All very wrong :-(
I met a lady once who had just bought a JR at 5 weeks without any knowledge about dogs.
The poor thing was the size of a guinea pig and it was only when she got home and tried to feed it kibble that she realised it was not yet weaned. Lucky she took it to the vet right away and got formula for it.
I guess there are plenty of uneducated people who don't know the right age to pick up a puppy and they just rely on the 'breeder' to give them the correct information. I think she learned a big leason that day but as she was quick to suss the problem out the pup ended up doing really well.
I got Fred at 7 weeks and to be honest in hindsight that was a bit young. I wish i'd have waited for a week or two.
Luckily the owner of the JR did the right thing for the pup but it doesnt stop the "breeder" from doing this again in future litters which is sad and worrying, the next lot of owners may not be as responsible as this lady
a girl came into where i work when my bitch was pregnant and said she had just got a new pup i asked the breed and age as you do and to my horror she said it was 5 weeks old sbt off her aunt apparantly the mum wouldnt feed them and she was feeding them human food bolognaise ect not puppy food they wernt weaned properly luckily i had found out quite a bit off here so passed on my knowledge but i did say ito her that if you breed a dog you should be prepared to hand rear not palm them off coz u cant be bothered SOME PEOPLE
30.08.08 00:36 GMT
In the book of the bitch it implies that 8 weeks is not a good period to let dogs go ..saying optimum time for adjustment ,around seven weeks .......i got one of mine at 5 weeks but would not do it again , she is a doll but i just wonder sometimes ...
My puppies are 5 weeks old today and nowhere near ready to leave me or their mum!!! I would never even consider it.
I am flexible as to when they do go but initially tell people that they may be ready at between 7-8 weeks.
The earliest I have ever let one go is a day under 7 weeks - it was a big confident puppy from a small litter.
Each pup is an individual and its needs to be considered carefully - they do not always grow at the same rate and this needs to be taken into consideration.
If a pup is going on a long journey home, again I would rather it leave a little later than the rest.
Gosh my breed are up and about and retrieving etc at 4 weeks but I would never let them go at 5. In my breed though 7 weeks is the best time for them to go to their new homes. THe Pomeranian's though we don't let go until they are about 12 weeks.
There have been lots of threads on this topic and it seems the consensus is that for medium size breeds between 7 and 8 weeks is the age when they are independent enough of Mum to be re-homed.
As for mentally there should be no real issue if the pups were socialised properly by the breeder and continue to be so by their new owners.
Pups that have stayed with me longer or one reason or another adjust really well as they have had the benefit of my more experienced socialisation and training, but people want their pups early, and of course it woudl be very hard to provide the optimum socialisation and training for a whole litter rather than a pup or two staying longer.
People are are wise to have pups by 8 weeks if there is any doubt over the training and socialisation they will receive, though to be honest people should not buy a pup from a breeder that will not socialise and rear it properly.
Can i say that many pups are independant of their mum at 5-6 weeks and even good mums are beginning to have enough by then but the interaction of the litter is so important from this age . To me it is so important for the pups to not only be well socialised but to alsa have the benefit of life with its littermates through play ,to me that is as important as anything and for this reason I would never let a pup go until 8 weeks ,not when its weaned from mum after all a pup in a new home will miss its littermates more than its mum,and in my experience the bitch is more than happy to go back to normal ....if the pups leave too early i think it affects the bitch ....the only exception to this is a singleton puppy which could go a little earlier.
I find my bitches wean the pups cold turkey at about 5 weeks and then once the milk has nearly dried up then go back to spending more time with then pups from 6 weeks onwards, at this stage playing and disciplining them etc. they start to spend time with the other canine adults some of whom can be quite short with the pups, and they learn how to respect the grumpy granny and know who will play and who won't.
My experience of singleton pups is that they need to go later as they do not do the things that a group litter does until much later. Even in opening of eyes, getting up etc. but that's just my experience over the years.
Years ago we got a Rough Collie cross puppy from a farm, the woman had taken in a stray rough collie and on the day they were moving house she had puppies. Anyway we got him at 6 weeks - at the time we knew little about dogs and breeding, this was the days when there were more mongrels than pure breds on the streets and lots of latch key dogs. My mum always said he was the best dog we ever had, he seemed to love his humans more and she always put it down to him leaving his mum so early and I've often wondered if that were true! Our best dog left the litter at 11 weeks, maybe 8 weeks is exactly the wrong time to leave the litter?
if pups have been reared correctly ie wormed regularly and weaning started from an early age so that by the time they reach 5-6 weeks old they are eating 3 or 4 good solid meals per day, then I dont see a problem with getting a puppy at that age, this thing about the puppy MUST BE 8 wks is a recent thing compared to how things were done years ago. the problem arises when bad breeders who dont know enough about what they are doing, yank the puppies away from the mother at 5-6 weeks to go straight into their new homes without them ever having been wormed or eaten solid food from a bowl. thats just my opinion though and I doubt many will agree with it.
01.09.08 06:58 GMT
01.09.08 07:03 GMT
puppies here are vaccinated at 8 weeks and chipped at same age, meaning they can leave around week 9.
i think that is a very good age for a puppy.
No one here would even think/consider selling a puppy without having it vaccinated, wormed etc ..
and when being a member of the club you even have to!no one would even want to leave a puppy at early age: they still need the littermates , their mum...
puppies do learn a lot from each other at age of 5 till 7 weeks .... their temperament will show ... the more relaxed ones, the dominant ones .. the quiet and soft ones ..
some puppies are not that fast in developping/ not growing as the others .. so the breeder can make sure he /she gets a bit more ...
they still learn a lot from their mum .,littermates .; how to react, how to behave, how to play etc.
and what about deciding which one to keep for shows etc ..can you pick your best one at 5 weeks? i dont think so!
they change so much in a couple of weeks .. just started to walk properly at 5 weeks ..
one has to check for testicles, for bites ....all has to be okay when selling as a show prospect etc ..or keeping your pick yourselves ..
No, i prefer to wait till at least 8 weeks .. think thats much better for the puppy too.
01.09.08 19:09 GMT
Sorry but i can't see any problems letting a pup go at 5/6 weeks old. If you as a breeder have the pups feeding, drinking and have wormed them. When you start talking about 9 weeks and over is far to long. More so if you are keeping a pup for show yourself. As you want to start to spend all your time on the pup(s) you will be keeping.
Also as a breeder you should be able to pick your own pick of litter before 5 weeks
01.09.08 19:25 GMT
> Sorry but i can't see any problems letting a pup go at 5/6 weeks old
A very sweeping generalisation!!!
As you may have read some breeds are up and very independant at 5 weeks and some just beginning to feed away from their mother. This also varies from litter to litter within breeds.
01.09.08 19:27 GMT
Well you as a breeder should know.
Thus why i said if "you as a breeder" So no sweeping generalization at all!!!!
Also if you are not experienced, you should not be breeding
We had a woman come into our grooming centre last week with her shih-tzu, carrying a 5 week old shih-tzu pup in her arms that she'd bought.. just to show us (? :( ) poor thing was tiny - fitted into the palm of her hand, and was shaking, the owner became very hostile when I asked how/why she'd aquired her so young :-(
01.09.08 20:04 GMT
> When you start talking about 9 weeks and over is far to long
Considering I have my puppies vaccinated, heart teasted, eye screened by an opthalomogist and micro-chipped before leaving my home, I disagree with this statement.
I have to say we got our boy at 10 weeks. He was so tiny and still shaky on his back legs. No way would we have wanted him any younger - he would have been too
01.09.08 20:11 GMT
You can disagree all you like that is your own opinion and thats your right. My own opinion is i want to spend as much time as i can on my own pup. So when i have a litter of 10 i have to spread my time.
no way would i buy a pup from any breeder letting them go at 5/6 weeks
not in my opinion a good breeder,why breed if you can,t wait to get rid of them
my pups went at 8 weeks
if you are having to spread your time, maybe you should not be breeding
rearing pups properly takes time and effort
my opinon is no pup should leave there litter mates and mum before 7weeks and im only happy to let them og at 7 if there big and doing well if not it 8weeks and longer if needed !
02.09.08 07:13 GMT
I as a breeder should know??! Yes I do know that ALL puppies in my litter get same attention .. not just the one i am keeping for myself!
And sure i have a favorite in the litter i consider keeping .. but we have so much to look at when keeping a puppy .. and hoping it will continue our breeding ..
body, bone, construction, pigmentation, eyecolor, feet, back, tailset, coat etc . and bite, testicles ..
I am ever so happy that in our country we are not allowed to let a puppy leave under 8 weeks! The puppy learns so much from littermates, mother, and from the breeder who, which i hope all breeders do, play with them, train them a bit, learn them how what a lead is etc ..taking them to water, in the fields .; let them discover the world!
And YES i am a breeder also know that most of the feedingcosts start when they are about 5 to 6 weeks .. so what??
We love to see chunky pups feeding them meat, fish, eggs, tripe, good brand of dry food .. etc
having them wormed two times, vaccinated,chipped and getting some genetic tests done if needed/required.
We dont make any difference between our own puppie and the others in the litter as they all deserve the best we can offer/give them .... YOU as a breeder should know that ...aswell!
Each puppy is special to us ...
Breeding is not my income .. it is a hobby .. and a passion .. and the moment i would not be able to give ALL puppies same love, attention, food, exercise, training etc. all thats required when rearing puppies!! thats the time I would stop breeding!
My own opinion is i want to spend as much time as i can on my own pup.
You're making it sound like you only care about the pup you want to keep and don't give a t*ss about the others. :-(
How do you suggest to your buyers that they socialise their pup when they can't go out for over a month?
>How do you suggest to your buyers that they socialise their pup when they can't go out for over a month?
To be fair, the same way as they would if they had them at 7 or 8 weeks - they carry them everywhere! That said, I wouldn't sell pups before 7 weeks because of how much they learn from their dam and littermates until then. However the Guide Dogs home them to puppy walkers at 6 weeks, and have well-socialised adults.
02.09.08 07:45 GMT
as a reply to " otherwise you should not be breeding .."
i breed labradors for more then 37 years now, have bred quite a few champions .. dogs that are living all over the world ... sofar for experience!
BUT if being a breeder means ... having a litter and to get them out of the way as soon as possible ... then i must admit .... i dont have THAT experience ..!
I am sure ( or at least hope so) that you didnot want to offend me or those who have a different opinion .. as a forum is there to share opinions/advice and support each other .. Having said/written that .. i still think that WHAT EVER breed one has .. 5 weeks is TOO early to let a puppy go, regardless if it already runs around .. etc ..
What about vaccinations given?
There is a whole new vaccinationscheme ( see Dr. Dodds:google!) and more info available now about the immunity given by mother .. New facts about behaviour/temperament ..all formed in early stages of life ..
Each puppy buyer/owner should get a puppy that has benefit from all what the breeder /the mother of the pups are able to give ...this way making sure it has the best start in its new life ..
I am sure You as a breeder wants that aswell for all of your puppies!
I wouldn't sell pups before 7 weeks because of how much they learn from their dam and littermates until then.
There is a big difference between a 5 week old pup and a 7 week old pup.
02.09.08 09:19 GMT
Again thats your opinion not mine so plz stop with raming down your opinion as fact. As when i let my other pups go, they go when ready. It's never done them any harm at all if you feel the need to keep them till over 9 weeks well done for you,
To montymoo so you have the time to get all 10/12 pups out and about?
I'll keep out this thread now and you all are far better breeders than me!!!
To montymoo so you have the time to get all 10/12 pups out and about?
my litter was 8 of big gundog breed
and yes i made sure all were well handled
they went at 8 weeks, actually not 10/12 weeks, but even if i had some left.. they still would have had my time
as far as going out and about, sorry no i do not take unvacinated dogs out
i still think if you havent got time to spend with pups even older ones you should not be breeding
letting pups go that early just speaks to me as selling for cash and no interest in what your breeding or pups welfare
what you do is your affair but you sure would not be on my recommended breeders list
02.09.08 10:04 GMT
I may not be on your list, but i am many many others list (and at the very top of the list i would say as well)
On a side note, you never take your pup in your arms out to the shop? oh dear....
It is not an unusual practice with Obedience people to get their dogs @ 6 weeks(especially the WSD/BC-soon as the clinical eye screening is done & the puppies tattooed etc)this enables the puppies to have a very close bond with the handler to help with the obedience training. many sheeptrialling folk do the same as their bond with their dogs also needs to be close. I would only let my puppies go @ this age if I knew the new owners & they were not 1st time BC/obedience handlers.
There's certainly nothing wrong with my Wukee, he has good social skills with dogs, humans & cats.
Not that I would ever have any Cavalier puppies, but I wouldn't let them go before they were @ least 12 weeks of age, but as I only have male Cavaliers I'm highly unlikely to ever be able to breed a litter ;-)
well as you seem to think your some big wig breeder who knows it all
i shall be thankfull you aint on mine
and go and spent time with my dogs
no i do not take dogs in shops, not allowed in my area
but i dont need to that
i have many people who come round and interact with my pups
each to their own
02.09.08 10:39 GMT
a forum topic can lead to a good discussion! giving each other the chance to come forward with ones opinion/vieuw on certain points!
we dont share the same ideas about this ..
but maybe have other things we all agree with ..
Hope we all want whats best for puppies .. and each in his own way ...
02.09.08 10:43 GMT
At no point did i say i was a big wig breeder who knows it all, no one does.
Thats my way of breeding and so far it works well for me in my breed. Just the same as your way is best for you
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